Wreck-It Ralph and Finding Your Third Place | Dan Langford

0:00 So it was hard for me to kind of grapple with, like, why am I getting in trouble for helping people? And I had to have, like, my manager, HR, help me out. I got pipped multiple times. PIP is a performance improvement plan. That's what, like, HR and the manager are like, if you don't shape up, maybe this job isn't going to work out for you, right? Ralph, Ralph, we get it. But we can't change who we are. The sooner you accept that, the better off your game and your life will be. Like, he's super tight at heart. And so, like, it took him a long time to kind of realize, like, who he was and how the program that he was in didn't really let him express that. And that might sound silly, but, like, I hadn't had that experience before in my life where I could, like, I don't know, go into a place that wasn't school or work or home and have people like, oh, hey, Dad, how's it going, man? And people are like, this is cool.

0:55 And so I can stop fighting the way that the system wanted me to work and just actually make the system work for me. Welcome to Yes and Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today. And we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Welcome to another episode of Yes and Land. So to get us kind of kicked off of this episode, I'm going to have a little brief intro here. For 30 years, Wreck -It Ralph was programmed to be the bad guy. Everyone told him who he was and that he couldn't change it. My guest today knows that feeling. Dan Langford is a senior software engineer by day and co -owner of Hearthside Games by night.

1:50 He's been told more than once that he didn't fit the system, and he's watched his own kids get told the same thing. Today, we're breaking what we are pre -programmed for that holds us back and breaking through to our real potential. So Dan, welcome to YesAnland. Thanks for having me. Happy to be here. Very excited to talk to you today about Wreck -It Ralph. Talk a little bit about your journey into some really kind of fun things that you're doing, not just with being a software engineer, but even more specifically with Hearthside Games, which you come out. Um, and, uh, brings a lot to the community and, and very excited to kind of talk about that journey, but to get us kicked off, let's take it way back.

2:31 Like take, take it way back to little Dan and what, what was, what was little Dan like? What was life like for you growing up? Oh man. Um, so long ago, I'm just, I've been realizing recently how old I'm getting. Um, so I'm, uh, four out of five. kids and, uh, grew up in, in, um, Layton up in Davis County. And, um, life was great, man. Life was full and fun growing up in the nineties. Um, had a loving family. Um, school was hard. I think I was smart, but I think it was hard. I think, I think school was, was like, it was difficult for me, but like I knew the stuff. sure um but i had a lot of a lot of great friends and parents gave me a lot of cool opportunities we were hiking all the time and skiing and going on road trips and and uh a lot of the things that we did like we didn't go like out of the country and on like big cruises and stuff like that uh it was mostly like you know hiking for five days in the canyon lands or something like

4:05 that. It was really fun, yeah. Yeah, you don't have to go travel to a bunch of wild destinations to have a good time. When I was growing up, we oftentimes would go down to Southern California and stay with some family in Vista. And so the only out -of -country experience that I ever had is we would then take a little train down to the border. We walk across the border to Tijuana. Okay. And go, you know, buy stuff at the little shops there and barter with people. So that was the only time, like, for the first 30 years of my life that I ever went out of the country was just Tijuana. Not exactly like the, you know, most luxurious destination. Was interesting to see because you see, and honestly, a lot of poverty, like people in really tough situations. I always did feel a little bit strange for me trying to barter with somebody who you're like. yeah, they probably could use the extra money. And I'm trying to like barter them down. I was never good at it. I was always like, oh yeah, it's 20 bucks.

5:01 Okay, well, how about 19? Okay, perfect. My brother was always very, very skilled with it. He would be able to know in the right time to like walk away, right? Where then they like try to get you to come back. No, no, no, I'll get you for 10 bucks and then you get the good deals, right? But yeah, I mean, part of the grownup experience is just like being with the people you love, right? And feeling like you belong with those people. And then you mentioned in school that you were plenty smart, which obviously you've proven that throughout your career. But it was a little bit hard. Tell me more about that. Yeah, I just didn't like the head of my assignments. Man, that sounds exactly like my 15 -year -old right now. Like literally sounds exactly like him. Yeah, and I think it started a very specific year. I thought he was like fifth grade. And then all of a sudden I was like, I'm not doing this. And it wasn't because, like, I didn't know the stuff. I think at the time I didn't really know what was going on. And looking back at it now, like, I was, you know, easily distracted.

6:12 And so I would just, you know, out of sight, out of mind, I'd forget about it. And then I would just not handle it. And then at some point it's like, ah, it's, you know, not worth doing it anymore, so just not. Like at this point I'm going to fail. So might as well just not do it anymore. And then, um, my parents, they, uh, they were very, um, they were very, very adamant that like I do work, even if I'm not going to get great. So I remember one time, um, my dad going to parent teacher conference, I think it was like eighth grade or something. And, um, my math teacher was like, ah, he hasn't, he hasn't had to work for like for weeks and weeks and weeks. You know, there's no way he's going to.

6:58 Anyways, my dad was like, he's going to do all the assignments. He's going to come in early and he's going to do all the assignments. She's like, he's not getting credit for him. And he's like, that's not the point. He needs to do the work. And so I went in every morning. My dad dropped me off early at school so I could go and make up all my missed work. You know, and it's things like that that taught me, like. Yeah, it is sometimes more about, like, just checking things off. And it's about, like, doing what you've been asked to do and what you were committed to do and going through. I don't know. I think it's just, like, being honorable and trustworthy, being a man of your word, like, and actually doing the work that you wanted to do. But it was hard. And I think it was kind of at that time that I started to realize that, like, I think my brain is wired differently. It's easy for me to forget and to... get distracted but then when i need to focus in on something um i'm able to like like hyper focus and and really get it done and hit it out of the park and hopefully it's just not too late by then right yeah yeah is that is that uh like the adhd or ed that you end up realizing you had yeah yeah um and and then i was later diagnosed with narcolepsy as well. And so just a handful of things going on that was, it was hard to, made it hard to, I

8:30 don't know, function or focus in the way that society might expect you to. Right. And, um, and we're talking like, and that it was a different time than it is, than it is now. And it was harder to, to like maybe recognize it and, and diagnose it and, and. And at the time, the medicine for it was, and the ways that it was treated was kind of concerning to some parents as well, right? Sure. A little concerned about throwing your kid on medicine and him losing his entire personality, right? And so those are some things that my parents are hard to face. They're like, you know, they're like, he's a great kid. He's fine. He's happy.

9:21 maybe we don't need to like throw them up right yeah and so that's um but over the years yeah i've i've tried to get some help like medicine or therapy and and you know what a lot of it for me has been is just like an understanding yeah that that's that's been a really big help for me is what now that i understand like oh this is a this is a thing this is a way that that you know my brain might be wired a little differently and and and most of of what has worked for me is actually adapting my life or my patterns or habits to work well with the way that I wired up here, as opposed to like trying to change my brain to work in the world, instead change the world around me to work into my, you know, the way that, that, uh, that my brain wants to work best. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. So when we, when we take a look at Wreck -It Ralph, there's obviously some parallels here. Yeah. you know uh with with ralph as as the movie starts and he's the he's the bad guy right he's the bad guy in this fix it felix game and uh he's kind of i mean he's programmed to do what he's supposed to do right he's supposed to be the bad guy he's supposed to wreck stuff and so he he is is just not loving life at the beginning of this movie right what what parallels do you see there between kind of what what Ralph was experiencing at the beginning of this movie, kind of some of the

10:52 things that you experience when you're starting to realize like, okay, what everyone else is saying and what I'm supposed to do is not really fitting with what actually works for me and what the way that my brain processes things. What parallels do you see? Yeah, so I like to think that, so like in the movie, a lot of it gets kicked off by them. celebrating their 30th together. So they've been in business for 30 years. If I had to think that Ralph early on was like super good at his job and loved it and got a lot of fulfillment from it and like he did what he was programmed to do and he probably loved it initially, right? Loved the record. I'm gonna wreck it.

11:37 And like it was over time that he started to I think more fully understand, like, who he was and who he wanted to be. What I love about watching that is seeing just how, like, how kind he is, right? Especially, like, when he meets Vanilla B, like, as he's frustrated at her, he's also, like, scaring off her bullies and helping her make a car and stuff like that, right? Like, he's super kind at heart. And so, like, it took him a long time to kind of realize, like, who he was and how the program that he was in didn't really, let him express that. Yeah. And so. Yeah, that's a great point. One of the quotes I wrote down, I want to get your take on, is early on, they're in this kind of, it's almost like it's an AA meeting, but for the bad guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bad A -naught. That's exactly right. Bad A -naught is what it is. And in there, one of the characters, I think his name's Clyde, says, when Ralph's going to complain about this, right, I'm going to be a bad guy. Ralph, Ralph, we get it. But we can't change who we are. The sooner you accept that, the better off your game and your life will be. And so it's interesting that, like, people are just telling Mike, sorry, can't do anything about it. He's got to accept it the way it is. And, you know, what the movie is showing is that, like, Ralph was just like, that just isn't going to work for me. There's got to be something more for me there. There's got to be something more that I can do. Because I think you're right. He actually was really kind at heart. And the movie really proves that. And he's not getting the opportunity to show that

13:08 at all in the game. He's always there as a dude to be the bad guy and wreck things and can't be embraced for the kindness that he has, which is really kind of a fun way for us to then see how that plays out with the things that he does. And so when we look at that, where do you kind of see that journey then taking him? How does he end up getting to that point where he can start to realize a little bit more about what he's looking for in life? Obviously, if you look at the movie as a whole, right, he's got to leave his gang. And go on some adventures of his own. Yeah. But before even that, if you remember where he went after Bad A -Law, but before he goes into, is it Heroes West? Heroes Journey? Heroes Duty. That's right. How did I forget that? Heroes Duty. That's right. Where was he before that?

14:04 He was actually in a bar. He was in the tavern. he was he was in and uh from open right he's running his sorrows and and the tavern king was trying to help off the might be a metal and the contract of the lost and found right yeah and uh um but yeah he's he's he's uh he's gotta leave he by by by leaving that environment of his game where i like he knew what he was going to be told this day right he knew how people would respond how they're going to treat him He kind of needed to break out of that and find another place to go on his own journey and adventure and kind of learn who he is and kind of take his own journey, which he just couldn't accomplish.

14:54 Yeah. And, you know, I think as you're saying that, what it reminds me about is. Because I think Felix, at the end of every game that they play, he gets a medal. And that's why Ralph wants a medal. He just really wants a medal. But it's interesting when you think about what does that medal represent? He doesn't want it because he just wants a coin. That's not what it is. It's that recognition that he means something, that he has a purpose and that he belongs somewhere. And I think that's what he was looking for and needed to go outside that game, outside that environment. He needed to change the environment. in order to start to realize the value that he actually had. I think it took him a while to even realize that because initially it was just that shiny thing. He's like, if I go back with the metal, they'll see that I can be a hero, right? It was all about the metal. And so that final scene where he's... falling down out of the sky onto the Mentos volcano. And he holds in his hand that the medal that Penelope made for him says, you're my hero. And that's where he's really starting to realize that life doesn't mean to be the shiny thing. I just want someone to like me for who I am. Yeah. Not everywhere can be the happiest place on earth. And at RCG Law Group, my job outside of our podcast, we get that. Life throws curveballs. Legal stuff,

16:27 family stuff, the things you didn't see coming. That's what we're here for. If you're dealing with something and don't know where to turn, give RCG a call. One of the things that we talked about for Dan was we talked a little bit about trains. Yeah. And your kids. Yeah. And an experience that you guys had with kind of like a, it was like a train club of sorts. Yeah. What your kids were doing with the trains versus what everybody else there thought. Maybe you could share that with us because I think it parallels really well this story we're talking about of like, wait, is something supposed to be in everything? Is it supposed to be that way? But maybe not. So we inherited some model train stuff from Grandpa after he passed and thought we would kind of just see what this model train world was about so that Grandpa's trains didn't get thrown away.

17:26 And I ended up joining a local club for all you train nerds out there. It was N -Scale, the pizza box club. And it was geared towards kids. And they would give the kids a platform about the size of like a big pizza box. And they would put an N -Scale track on it. And then they would teach the kids like about modeling terrain. and trains and stuff like that. And we wired up a little electrical work on it and then build a big bottle around it and make it yours. And it was great, super fun. And the old train heads that were running it were very, very kind and imparted a lot of wisdom of model train on us.

18:15 But I had my young girls with me and I wanted them to be able to do it the way they wanted to do it. And we'd actually just watched. uh, bracket Ralph and, and my one daughter, she wanted to make it, she wanted to model it after that, that world. So instead of like, you know, where a normal model train would have like a mountain and the lake and, you know, trees and, and really pretty scenery that takes a lot of skill. Like we made a, a three tier cage and our lake in the middle was green slime. Um, If you remember that scene where Wreck -It Ralph, he's like covered in the green goo and then he gets covered in candy. So he's this monster coming out of the trees. And we had like Oreos and a Coke bottle and candy canes. And we decorated the cake and it just looked like dessert. And she's loved it. And we go to the train club and some of the old train heads were. kind of a little frustrated that we don't follow their instructions. And they even, they even pointed us outside and said, look at those mountains. They're not shaped like that. They're more sloped. And, and cause we had the three tier cake. And, and I'm sitting here thinking like, did you just not see the vision? It's like, it's supposed to be cake.

19:42 It's not that we don't know how to make mountains. It's like, it's supposed to be cake. Um, and, uh, so some of them were all kind of grumpy and. That we were doing it wrong. But at the same time, like the other kids in the train, they'd be like, what? They made a cake? I made a mountain. They made a cake. That's cool. And they would like start to ask their mom or dad, damn, did I do something? And the old train heads there like, no, it's not from a mountain. And my other daughter, that one, we just did a wood floor. that we put the train on but i made the whole thing magnetic and then we got a bunch of toy story toys and put magnets on them and i got you know barrel monkeys and lincoln logs and and there's a scene i want to say it's from total story 3d opening scene with the orphan trolls on the train and the trains going into the cavern yeah you know those opening montages they did and we like expected that and found out that that train was a Jupiter actually when we found a Jupiter engine anyways that one was made to be played on and again it wasn't a mountain it wasn't a lake and it was something that I wanted my kids to be able to interact with so they would actually play as the train was going around and anyways to make there was a lot of really interesting interactions there but like to kind of bring

21:13 it home there was actually a junior train modeling competition and Um, my girls got Joel Bush place and they got their picture taken and they're in the Walther's magazine, um, featured for their creative design and it made all the old trend heads super grumpy, I think, but I was really proud of them for like, you know, being willing and able to express themselves and make the thing they want to make, even though they were being told that they were doing it wrong. Yeah. I wrote down a quote because I think it fits so perfectly within this. This was from a TED Talk by Sir Ken Robinson. And he said, if you're not prepared to be wronged, you'll never come up with anything original. And so for you, as your girls are experiencing this, what was the life lesson that you feel like that they were kind of learning from this experience with these train heads who were telling them, no, you have to do it this way, and you helping them understand they can do something different? Yeah. Yeah. I hope that they, that they learned in their life from that and other experiences that, that it's okay to say no. It's going to say, no, I'm going to try something different. It's okay to, you know, find that, that way to kind of respectfully say, value your opinion, hand your expertise. Can I still want to tap into that? But at the same time, I'm going to say no. I'm going to try something different.

22:40 That can be, that can be hard to do in life is to, is to. It's so easy to want to conform to what the world is telling you you need to do. That sentence would be the path of least resistance. But I love that quote because, yeah, it's really create something. You have to be able to break those walls, those boundaries or whatever. Yeah. And I do think it is really hard sometimes. i'm very much at times a conformist right like growing up definitely was a bit like my my 13 year old um maybe even a bit of a people pleaser and so the idea of like doing something different somebody saying you can't do it that way was like death like no way i got to do it exactly the way right i was always really good like news follow these instructions exactly the way they are right if i was ever to make a lego set oh man i've got every page out on pono like Have me put together your Ikea furniture because I will follow that to a T, like every single thing in its place.

23:49 And really hard for me to like sometimes kind of break out of that. And I think just in life in general, it sometimes is hard for us to put ourselves out there because that's scary. You know, it's scary to say I'm going to do something different. It's scary to say, you know what, I understand the value of what you have and I still want to go try this thing that's a little bit different. That's actually really scary because it comes along with that risk of failure. Yeah. Failure is a little bit scary for people, but what a valuable lesson, right? Your girls are learning. And I love that they ended up winning first place. Oh yeah. Like that's like the perfect cap to that story because then they have that originality rewarded. And they were so young. I don't, I don't think they grasped at that time what was going on. Maybe it was more of a lesson for, for me. Sure. Trying to be a dad and figure out how to be a dad. They were so young. I'm like, oh, my picture's in the paper. yeah can we play with the trains yeah um i'll bet i'll bet that carries through i'll bet that's something that that ends up being something they kind of core memory come back to and realize especially if they get older what the value of that lesson was that you helped empower them to do um one of the things i was thinking about with this too is something you had shared before uh in our in our pre -show about at work um when you were kind of sometimes experiencing the way that the work wanted you to do certain things that wasn't working out very well. And then when you got into a position where you were more in leadership at team lead, and then you could change the way

25:20 that things were done and that kind of breakthrough, maybe you can share that with us a little bit about what, what you were told to do and had to do and why that didn't work and why things shifted and changed once you had more control over the environment. Yeah. So in, in the, The type of software development I was in, I was on a large team and we had another business group in the organization that was driving the requirements and signing off on the work that we did. And they had deadlines that we were committing to. And I got into a bit of a group there quite a few times where I just wasn't. to limit my workout time, right? And I'm having flashbacks to high school, junior high, elementary school, where I'm not handing my assignments, but it's not because I didn't know how to do it. And so I'm having to take a step back and be like, what's going on here? And I had to have my manager, HR, help me out. I got pipped multiple times.

26:21 PIP is a performance improvement plan. That's what HR and the manager are like. If you don't shape up, maybe this job isn't going to work out for you, right? And so I'm trying to work with my managers to figure out what's going on. And like, I'm being distracted. And at first that's kind of, oh, you're being distracted too much, right? Let's, let's, you know, change your work environment. Let's get you some headphones. Let's make sure you got tasks to do. So you're not distracted as much. And then we dig deeper and I'm realizing that like, I'm actually like, what am I being distracted with though? It's not like I'm, it's like. It's like a social media or video game or anything like that. I was actually getting distracted helping people. I was, and so, and so like, it never really clicked with me that I was doing anything wrong because I was, I was helping, you know, Dave, Ted and others, like get their work done and overcome their roadblocks and things. But, but it was at the cost of my own work. And that just wasn't driving. Like I made communities to get. these tasks done on a certain date. And I wasn't getting them done.

27:33 And, and I was trying to, at first I was like, well, I'm helping people. Like, like I'm progressing. The work is getting done. Like, like overall it seems better. I mentioned like, yeah, but you didn't do the thing that you did. And, and as you were told, like doing this stuff got done. And, and so it was hard for me to kind of grapple with like, the world wanted me to work in a certain way, but I was physically distracted, but also wanted to help people. And I just felt like I was doing good, but. But at the same time, I'm being punished or reprimanded or course corrected. And that was kind of hard for me. I would understand if I was, you know, actually like slacking off and not doing the work or doing it poorly. But so it was hard for me to kind of grapple with, like, why am I getting in trouble for helping people? And that actually happened multiple times over my career. I eventually got into a spot where I was able to be a team lead. And it was like a huge sigh of relief or a wave of relief wash over me as I realized I could actually work the way that I want to work now. And instead of like being reprimanded for interrupting my own work to help people with their work, I was able to structure the team so that that was my role. That was my job. And so I could stop, like, fighting the way that the system wanted me to

29:03 work and just actually make the system work for me. And it got to a point where I just kind of defined that with my team. My role is, at the beginning of the day, I don't know what I'm doing because my job is to hear what you're doing and to help. and clear those roadblocks and to step in where I need to. And that's what I started realizing. That's what I've been doing for years and years and years that I've been told I was doing wrong. And now it could be basically my job description. And I felt like that part of my career, I really thrived a lot and I grew a lot and I contributed a lot back to the team because I was like, I kind of found my stride. I was in my game. It was a lot of fun. I think it's a great example of this quote that I pulled from James Clear, who he's like the habit and motivation guy, right? He wrote Atomic Habits.

29:58 He's definitely an authority on this in today's society. And here's something he said. He said, environment is the invisible hand that shapes human behavior. We tend to believe our habits are a product of our motivation, talent, and effort. Certainly these qualities matter. But the surprising thing is, especially over a long time period, your personal characteristics tend to get overpowered by your environment. And so you have these personal characteristics of like you want to go and help and that the distraction was really like you trying to help other people. You taking a greater role in facilitating what the overall team could accomplish by doing that.

30:39 And once that environment could change and you could step into. taking advantage of those characteristics suddenly it starts to thrive which i think is just your story there is just a great example of that and you know when we can sometimes say like okay if this isn't working let's change the environment let's see how we can maximize what it is as i as i've thought a lot about in recent years like the idea of of sometimes people have adhd i mean my 17 year old does And so keeping his attention on training assignments is really hard. Much like the experience, right? It's just hard because his mind just wanders. But you know what he can do? Boy, if he's going to play video games, he can keep that attention for hours. And so it's the thing that can keep his attention.

31:21 And so I just attended parent -teacher conferences yesterday with him. And I will give his teachers credit because when we're having the conversation about things that he does and the things that are sometimes holding him back. They were very accommodating and patient to understand like, okay, this isn't working for you. Why don't we try this? Jack, how about we try this? Let's try doing this next time. These notes you got to take in class, you're having a hard time just taking them. Why don't I provide you the basis and the outline and all you got to do is highlight it. And then you can turn that in instead of having to try to be distracted by those, all these other things, highlight and then ask me questions, write a question mark by it. If you don't know, we'll talk about it later. And I just really appreciated. that their willingness to say, okay, if his attention is easily distracted, let's adjust it. Let's change something. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor?

32:10 If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like, rate, and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you. We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality. The world is much more accommodating these days to people who just work differently, be it ADHD or narcolepsy or autism or anything else. And I think that's a great blessing. Yeah, it could have been a very different experience if, you know, way back when I started. My journey in corporate America, if corporate America was in a different spot where it could be like, oh, hey, you work a little differently. Maybe let's, you know, change the way that we assign you work and the way that we value your contribution and measure your success. You know, it wasn't in the spot like it was then. And definitely my schooling wasn't in the 90s like that. So it's really cool to see every so many different aspects of our of our community being much more. adaptable and, um, understanding and flexible to, to, to kids and people being, being different and thinking different and working differently. It's awesome.

33:35 So one of the things I want to talk to you about too, uh, in relation to kind of like finding the things that, that bring us, um, like joy and bring us the things that we're looking for. Tell me about the journey of getting to a place where you open up. Hard Side Games, where you open up this game store. Like, tell me how that came about. Yeah, that's something that I know you shouldn't be doing. Someone who's 40 or I don't know. Yeah, shouldn't be like, yeah, let's open a game store with your friend. I don't know. That's society will tell you that's that's a weird path to be taken. Totally right. You're a software engineer. You're working in corporate America. and you go do this yes society would definitely say yeah don't do that yeah yeah um it it all started i think the most significant beginning of it was like 2014 2015 i was playing um hearthstone so that's like uh it's a trading card it's a digital trading card game so you might play it on your ipad uh out of a blizzard universe And I played with my friend Andre and having lots of fun. And he was geeking out about it. And we were wanting to play with other people.

35:09 And we started running like events and at tournaments. Our very first one was out of like a little restaurant in Daybreak. They just let us like. take over the whole restaurant and bring a bunch of people in and, and, and play video games with each other. But it was like in person. And so we started running events like that. And, and we ran at a game Haven and, uh, the break, um, to the little bar and they regularly ran stuff there. And all of a sudden, like God built this community of people who like wanted to play our games. I remember one of the participants. I was talking to him about, you know, the next event we're going to run, how we might format it differently. I had some questions about, hey, you know, if we did the brackets like this, would that be good? Would that be competitive? Would that be fair? And he stopped me and was like, dude, it doesn't matter. If it's you and Andre running it, like, we're going to show up. Because these are the best. That's what kind of hit me. Like, oh, we're kind of doing something cool here, right? And that, you know. lived its life and it was fun.

36:22 And we kind of went, went separate ways and Andre and I always kind of stayed in touch. And then, and then it actually, I think was, um, or Kana, the Disney trading card game that kind of, um, brought Andre and I back to, to, to hang it out much more regularly. Um, Cause I knew that in the past he'd lost magic and he lost Disney. And so I'm like, dude, have you heard of this? He's like, yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, man, I can't wait for the release. And so him and I, he starts inviting me with his kids to go to all these other game stores and start collecting cards and playing Wakanda as it's released. And then it's like being in those game stores and seeing those communities and seeing the enjoyment and being able to do that with your kids. It was kind of that that started us, kind of always joke, man, we should open our own game shop.

37:19 Man, we should just do it on our own. Like, we could do it a little bit better. Why did they do it like that? Or think, if I was running things, think it would be much better. And Andre and I would frequently say, man, if we're back in our hearts of dumb days, we would do it like this. Remember how we did this? Remember how we did that? man it would be it'd be great to do but it was always just kind of a uh kind of a joke or or kind of a dream maybe um but i don't know at least for me um that i actually really seriously thought that whatever happened and then we heard um miss those games they're actually like like a block from from here um we're going out of business and, which is too bad, they were a lovely store. That was a really cool community.

38:18 And it was that cool, great community they had there, but them having to decide to close their doors, it was then that Andre and I were texting, we started talking to the owner about it. It didn't quite make sense to bite, but that like that like got us over that hurdle of like silly little drink, like wait, maybe we can actually do it right. Kind of got to get over that hurdle. And now all of a sudden, once you start talking seriously about it, it's like, Whoa, let me actually do this. And so we started looking at other locations and, and, um, and, and from there, it just, it just snowballed really quickly into us. Signing a lease off place and trying to buy a product and designing logos and tearing carpet out. Where we are now used to be a quinceanera dress shop.

39:15 There was more glitter than fabric in that carpet that we were pulling out, man. I'll bet. It's amazing. But it kind of just moved really fast. Once we kind of like accepted, like, yeah, we're going to do this. That's crazy it is. The momentum just kind of. came behind it but your moon three was asked when when you you look at that like taking that step to do something that's very like outside the box out of the ordinary what is it that ultimately drew you to doing that like what was it about the community that you guys had started to build that gave you the motivation to do something that was very risky the community that people can find or build around like physical in -person games is, um, in my, in our experience, really, really wholesome and really, um, accepting.

40:13 So I guess we were, as we were playing games in all these different card shops, um, you know, you, you start to see the same people at the different shops you go to, right? And you start getting into your game. Yeah. Your competitive deck you're building. And you show up to this other car show and you see people that you saw at the first one. And all of a sudden, like people know your name. Right. And that might sound silly, but like I hadn't had that experience before in my life where I could like, I don't know, go into a place that wasn't school or work or home and have people like, oh, hey, Dan, how's it going, man? And people know my name. This is cool. And like. And all of a sudden there's like more friends and community. And that was a really cool aspect that we realized we wanted to be able to continue to provide. And maybe there's even ways that we organize or run our store in which we could expound on that a little bit or really lean into that or really amplify the community side of. of in -person gaming just to make an environment which really, I don't know, inclusive and accepting and give people

41:44 a third space, if you will, to make friends and to kind of find out a little bit more who they are or to express themselves in a way that maybe they can't do at work or at home. One of the things I thought maybe could be kind of fun. and helpful is maybe you could give like a 30 ,000 foot view of what some of these games are specifically with work on it. I visited your shop recently and got to see a little bit of that community feel when I was there and I could see people just greeting each other as they came in and just big smiles on their faces and people just so welcoming. I didn't really understand much of it, right? I had never played Magic the Gathering. I hadn't played some other games.

42:32 my life was more of like board games, right? I played tons of board games, a lot of video games, but I hadn't done some of these card games, right? And so if you were to give a 30 ,000 foot view of some of these card games and I brought on my set that I got at your shop, right? Like what is this for somebody who has never done anything with these kinds of games before, right? I get all these cards here, got things like, I think this is an incredible set. So I got like Mrs. Incredible and Mr. Incredible and there's all these cards, right? What? What is done with these cards for somebody who has never done anything with these games before? So, yeah, we do a lot of card games at the shop. And I'd say that's the core of the activities that people are doing there. So what with these games, Magic Gathering, Pokemon, Wakana, One Piece, Digimon. There's a huge library of cards, and the cards have different defects or stats and power levels and defense and abilities. And you are organizing them. You have to collect, you know, you put a certain number. There's 60 cards in that deck there.

43:52 And you're finding a synergy between these cards. You're building your deck, and then you're bringing it to the store, and you're playing 1v1 against other people. And in Wakanda, your goal is to collect 20 more, and then you win the game. And in other games, it's to deal the most damage and to kill all their dudes. So each day has its objective, and you've got all these cards that support your objective, and you play 1v1, and you take turns playing your cards and doing your abilities. navigating the board state to make sure that you can win. And some of it's offensive and some of it's defensive. And then in these events, a bunch of people show up to play the game. And so we will pair everybody up. And then the court wins and losses, and then the ring pair you up with people who have similar records. And so you're the people who are really good or playing people who are really good. And if you're like me, not as good, then you are joining people like you might not be as good.

44:56 Yeah. And you're learning the game together. And for some people, it's like real, really competitive. They have to win. But for a lot of people, like. it's just really fun gameplay. Like I had this idea, I put all these cards in my deck and it's a silly idea. Maybe most of the time it doesn't work, but when you do get your combo off and it does work, it's really fun. And you're seeing how their decks play and you're realizing, oh man, everybody keeps beating me in a particular way. Maybe I need to get more saloon in my deck or more card draw or more ink ramp or something like that. There's so many like life lessons in here around like continuous improvement and you're recognizing how you need to improve and adapting to your environments and right. And just the deck building and play alone. But, but hinged on top of all that is like this community of these people that you're playing with and you get to know them, you get to know how they play and how the decks play. and you're hanging out in between rails as you're waiting for your next pairing, getting to know these people. And, and community is so kind. I can't tell you how many times after a match, um, we just sit there and talk with my opponent about how the game went and what worked for them and what worked for me. And, and they even suggest like, maybe, maybe should have played this instead of that.

46:14 And then this would have happened and it would have triggered that. And then you could have done this and it would have been better. And I'm like, so I'm learning from these people. And, um, and you see that. in every single community game at our store. Now, it's not like that at every store or in every game. There's some games or stores that have a reputation for not being as friendly. And that's one thing that we've charged our employees with. Part of the idea around kind of some of the core beliefs of our stores to make sure we're making an environment where that can happen. People can be friendly and welcoming and we will try to stifle any rude behavior or any attitude or experience where people are making it not a good play experience for others. So the community is very, very, very important to us. Now, I want to tell people, too, about one of the things that you were doing when I visited your store, which I thought was super cool. Because you had kids that came to play chess. Oh, yeah. You came on chess nights.

47:34 Yes. Yeah. Because, okay, here was my inexperienced brain thinking. I'm like, okay, this has got to be a business. I've got to have a way to, like, make money. So I'm just thinking they must charge people to come and play the games. It must be what it is. And I just had that totally wrong. It's like when I'm suddenly seeing kids come in and they're coming in and they're playing chess with each other, I'm thinking, what is going on? So maybe tell people a little bit about some of the things that you do like that to bring people together. Yeah. So for the listeners out there who think of their game shop that they frequent, maybe, near their home. They probably think there's a lot, a lot, a lot of board games on shelves and then a couple tables in the back that you can play games. And first thing people notice when they step into our shop is it's flipped.

48:30 We've got some shelves with games and cards and stuff, but a lot of tables. A lot. It's a sea of tables. Yeah, like when I walked in, it was just like a whole bunch of tables. Yeah. I was like, wow, there must be a lot happening here. And that shows that like something really important to us is it's about the play. It's not about the sell. Sales will come, right? So we as a business, we're all worried about that. We just want to make a place where people can play and feel comfortable being. And so, yeah, we don't charge people to play. A lot of people come in, bring their friends, bring their own games. They play for hours. They might buy a couple snacks. And then they leave, and we're going to see them next week. And it's awesome. It's great. We love it. And so, yeah, kind of leaning into that, it's about the play. more than it is about, you know, making money on every person who comes to the door, has allowed us to think a little bit outside the box as it relates to other games.

49:32 You might see other games, those do. So we have the fine folks from PoweredChess .com who are bringing in chess. They're in there two nights a week, and then they're running a tournament. They ran a tournament there, then got another tournament. in october where the kids are going to be dressed up in their halloween costumes and it's going to be fun we've did we do like um speed puzzling um and so and we've done uh mahjong we did some mahjong classes that would like to competitively that was really cool and these these are things that like we're not like raking in the dough on this right but we're creating a fun community and we're trying to reach out to like other parts of the community or other parts of our, of our community that might not frequent, um, game stores. And so like the speed puzzling crowd and the Modron crowd, um, are the typical people you would see that you might see, uh, you know, on a, on a Friday night at the game store. Um, but they love. they love being there yeah uh so these these older ladies will will tell us they feel just like penny from big bang theory as you know as they as they take her to the comic shop right yeah a little out of the elbow but but but fun to to to be there um and i'm constantly reminded about all the synergies that that there are like yeah maybe maybe the car shop is a place like that is a

51:05 place that like a lot of these these speed puzzlers frequent but like they know pokemon as well they bring their kids and and uh they'll win speed puzzling and use their their winnings to pick up packs of pokemon at chess uh the boys really wanted a pokemon card his dad's like well if you if he plays fourth or better and just walk into the card and so he like did really good in chess and his dad bought a pokemon card i love that And I think, you know, one of the things that I really appreciate about your shop and shops, really shops like this just in general, is that it's bringing people together in person.

51:48 You know, I joke because I play a little bit of Call of Duty. Not a lot. Not a lot. But I have for years. And when I play Call of Duty, I play it with my friends, and it's three friends specifically, and we've played it together for about 20 years. Cool. And we always get together in person to play. Now they'll sometimes play online, right? And they'll kind of keep up. So I kind of keep their skills sharp. Truth be told, I play once a month and I only play when they come over and we get together because to me, what I love about it and why I like doing it is because it's our opportunity to get together and we're doing something together. We're in person and we're having that interaction. We're catching up, you know, what's been going on for each other, you know, what's new in our lives and what's happening. And that's what I love about the feel at. your shop when I went, which is it's people coming together in person. As we become more and more disconnected, as we are more and more on devices and we can do so many things virtually and Zoom meetings and just being involved in our phones, coming together in person and having that shared experience together really brings something to the table that I think people are going to more and more need and are more and more missing. I think it's really filling a need that we as humans have to have a sense of belonging. We're social creatures, right?

53:08 We've always been social creatures. Throughout all of human history, we are social creatures. And I love the way that you described your job of like, we just welcome people to come, right? Like whoever can come and be a part of this and we just want them to feel like they belong and we know each other's names. It reminds me of like the song of cheers, right? Like where everybody knows your name, right? Like that's the core of what Cheers is, right? You know, of course that's a bar, but it's still that same idea of coming to a place where people know you and appreciate you for who you are and you can just experience fun times with them. When we were deciding what we wanted to sort of focus on, we actually made a very cautious, out loud decision that we were going to focus on the games that already asked the players to come back every week. So, like, we have some board games, but I actually don't think we have a copy of Ticket to Ride right now, which the joke in the gaming industry is that all you need is Wingspan and Ticket to Ride and you'll make money. That's probably true.

54:13 But so all the TCGs kind of ask you to come back each week to get more packs to find the collected cards that you need to make your deck awesome, right? And then there's RPGs like D &D and Pathfinder. that that generally ask you your group to meet back up regularly to continue your adventure and then there's like tabletop major games like warhammer there's a starcraft game um that again it's the there's going to be more of an opportunity to find people to play with in a game shop and you got to get your latest models and your paint and stuff like that so so we you know ticket to ride doesn't inherently ask you to come back to the shop and when i said that Some people are like, oh, it sounds like you're just focusing on games that require people to spend money every weekend. Actually, there's a lot of people that come and play those games every weekend that they don't spend. It's not about them spending money in the store. It's about them coming to the store to find other people who love the thing that they love. A lot of times people come to the store and just hang out. They actually won't even get any games in because they're in their model or they're building their deck or they're sorting their cards. They just kind of want to just hang out. with people and watch other people play and get to know people and um that's something that's something i i realized just last night i was at the store and um i decided i wanted to build a cat's a dog magic together and you

55:43 know i could have been at home had that idea googled some things found a list gone on a website bought all the cards had them shipped to my house and been one and done, but I went to the store and I was talking to people about it and someone overheard me. He's like, oh man, I just sold the perfect card to your store. You guys should have it in the back of the inventory. I went and found it and I bought it. And I'm like, this is really cool. It's like a Garfield and Odie special magic gathering card for a deck that has a bunch of cats and dogs in it. And I was like, oh, this is awesome, man. Thanks. He just eavesdropped on our conversation, overheard it, and then suggested this really cool card to me. And then a few minutes later, he comes back and he hands me a whole deck. He's like, here you go. These are all Captain Dogs I have. Just have them. I'm like, no, I didn't buy it for him.

56:28 He's like, no, just have them, man. That's great. And like, I'd seen him around the store. I hadn't had the opportunity to get to know him, but I was able to hang out with him last night. And now I'm friends with Jesus. And every time I go there and see him, he'll say, Adam, thanks for the deck, man. And all of a sudden, I now have this connection with this. with this guy. And as I build my deck and put a new, new cool cards, I'll be excited to show them and he'll be excited to see it. And he'll pick up his deck and we'll play each other and they'll kick my butt. It'll be awesome. Um, all because like, I chose to go to a place with other people to talk about it and let people hear what I'm doing and I'm interested in and let them be involved in, in, in, uh, you know, my interests and me be involved in their interests. And, um, yeah it's just it's it's really it's a really special thing once you start to to make those connections in person as people and that's so much richer of an experience right to have that connection rather than just being online and researching it up and going and buying it and having it delivered to your house yeah there's nothing wrong with that yeah but that just would have been like a deck that i bought was delivered as opposed to a deck that he says recommended and gave me most of like that's yeah there's now a sentimental value to it yeah absolutely yeah i love that so as we as we bring it back to record you alluded to it at the very beginning and i want to take us back to that quote because i think it just it wraps up so nicely this hero's journey that

58:01 ralph has right where he's talking at the end um he's back on the the i think i think he might be on the pile of or wherever he's at. It's at the very end after the game is played out and Felix gets his medal and he's sitting here reflecting on it. And he says, turns out I don't need a medal to tell me I'm a good guy. Because if that little kid likes me, how bad can I be? Time and course about when I'll do. And I mean, I guess let me get your take on that and then maybe I'll add something to it. Yeah, he had quite the journey through that movie, which is one reason why I love it so much. He saw it. He knew he needed something different. And he thought it was one thing that was a metal. And it took him breaking out of his shell and trying to achieve that thing.

59:00 Even if that wasn't the right thing, at least he was trying to achieve something. He was trying to learn, trying to grow through his journey. He was willing to accept what he initially thought was the goal for him. Was it? but he still learned and grew and, and, uh, and, uh, yeah, I love kind of where, where he brought that back. He just, he just kind of wanted some acceptance and, and, and, and love. And, and he found that in, in an unlikely friend that he met in an unlikely place. Um, and at first they weren't friends and they became friends. And one thing I really love about all that, especially the other movie there is He left his home and work environment and did something different. He made some friends and learned and grew. And that made his home and work environment life better. Right. Because of his growth and his progression and stuff like that. And so like these different aspects of our life, they all affect each other. And as you learn and grow in one, it improves your life in the other. And I love how there's the reframe that he has as a result of that, which is he's a bad guy technically, right? But that's just the title of what his job is. Because as they say at the very beginning, right, all the way

1:00:31 back when they foreshadow it, bad anon, right? You are bad guy, but this did not mean you are bad guy, right? Okay, but he's not actually a bad guy because he actually is a good guy. He is a kind individual. And once he's gone outside of himself and found that connection and different space, now suddenly he sees himself different. And when he does, then when he's in his work environment, right, doing his job, right, to be the bad guy, it's a totally different experience for him, which I do really love. And, you know, I think for us getting outside of ourselves and finding that connection somewhere just outside of, you know, where it's just. work and home life all the time. Yeah. And we could find that connection somewhere else. It can really help us in the different facets of our life. And I really believe that. I think that's really important for us. So let me take us to a quick couple of fun segments. Let's go. Okay. We're going to do a this or that. Okay. So you ready for this?

1:01:26 You better buckle up. Okay. Dan, you better buckle up. Okay. Ralph or Felix? Oh, Ralph. I know. That was probably a softball. We start with the easy one. All right. Even that's hard. He's actually a super nice guy. He is a super nice guy. Yeah. Trying to do the right thing, right? Has some growth himself throughout the movie. He's got a lot of pressure on him as well. Totally. He's the titular character in the game, right? Everybody looks up to him. He's got a lot of pressure. So I feel for him as well. Yeah. But yeah, he does. But Ralph's the best. Yeah. Heroes Duty or Sugar Rush? Kid Rush is fun. Yeah. Heroes of Duty is gritty. Yes. Feels like a game of the high school cap. That's not me. I'm more of a fun kind of guy. Okay, you're more sugar rush. I like it. I like it. Vanellope or Calhoun from Heroes of Duty? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Vanellope.

1:02:26 Maybe for some of the same reasons. Yeah. That was a good character. Calhoun was a very good character. She was awesome. Vanellope, though, is much more endearing. Uh, okay. So in, in general, not necessarily the game, do you prefer to wreck it or fix it? Um, I actually very much a fixer, I think. Okay. Yeah. And a builder of things. Yeah. And, um, maybe, maybe much the chagrin of my wife or my family. I was trying to fix things. Yeah. Um, uh, but I don't, I wonder if other people would agree. I don't know. Maybe my. My wife would say, I wreck things on my journey to fix it. Yeah, it's a little bit to get there.

1:03:12 The last time that we had, my wife and I, we bought a fixer -upper. And the thing had to be gutted. Like, it was not in good shape. It was built in the 70s, and, man, it was rough. And, you know, you watch these fixer -upper type shows, and everybody loves Demo Day. I'll be honest, I didn't love Demo Day. Man, it was really hard. Like, actually, that demo was pretty tough. I prefer kind of putting stuff back together, to be honest. But one of my favorite scenes in Reggae Ralph is when Felix is trying to break out of jail. And he hits the bars. The bars get bigger because he fixes things, right? He's all frustrated. He's trying to break it, but it won't. It won't.

1:03:53 That's not what his little hammer does, right? Candy or cake? Oh, candy's such a broad. Such a broad category. So I don't know. You can just, cake though. Cake. Yeah, cake. Rhubarb cake. Rhubarb? Yeah. Wow, you took me for a loop right there. Yeah, man. Man, you're going way outside the norm. We're a little sour in there. Okay, I like it. It's hard. Pac -Man or Mario? I think I'm more of a Mario guy. More of the world to explore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely that way with Mario. Board games or video games? Board games. I like board games a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:47 What's your favorite board game? Whoa. I know that's tough. There's a tough one. For a guy that owns a game store. I know, but let's just get one anyway. Maybe you don't have a favorite. Pandemic. What is it? Pandemic. Pandemic. Okay. It's a co -op game. It's one of the, there's lots of co -op games, but it was kind of one of the early ones that kind of defined. If you ever ask anybody about co -op games, they'll always bring up pandemic. It's kind of like the granddaddy in the genre. And it's really good. You've got lots of distinct roles that you're all playing to try to. It's all pre -COVID, you know. But now that COVID's happened, it's all a little bit more. But you're traveling across the world trying to clean up the virus. They all have different roles. You've got to work together to survive. you don't a lot of times and it's it's a good game yeah very interesting um model trains or legos legos the way you go small trains are a little too prominent yeah for us yeah so when you play legos it's not like the lego movie where he clues them all together it's like the opposite it's like the kid that breaks them all yeah and creates what he wants right yeah you can be right from kids and you can write it and you can build it exactly right uh magic or lorcona Um, yeah, no, Royal Carmel is a very special place in my heart. And I, I

1:06:18 don't have a huge history with, with magic, though I'm learning to appreciate it more as I, as I'm thrown more and more into the magic community. But yeah, Royal Carmel is obviously a special place in my heart. I like it. Early bird or night owl? Um, night owl. Yeah. I have an narcolepsy. Waking up is hard. Ah, yeah. yeah so i'm not an i'm not gonna remember yeah we didn't talk much about it yeah yeah so so i i stay up because i know once i go to sleep man it's gonna be hard to wake up yeah that totally makes sense um okay let's hit our rapid fire okay you ready for these yep favorite disney movie um i really like rick ralph a lot toy story i have a whole franchise especially toy story And Monsters, Inc. Can I have all three of them? Let's do it. I mean, everything you said so far, I love. Toy Story, amazing. Monsters, Inc. Honestly, Monsters, Inc.

1:07:20 is so good. And we can't call those Disney now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because Disney owns Pixar. So we'll definitely loop those in. My youngest daughter, who's six now, she just loves the Monsters, Inc. ride at California Adventure. Because when we go there, we absolutely have to go on that ride. and multiple times and so part of it is just like the joy that she has that just makes me love it even more so good favorite disney song he's got a friend of me yes oh man that is such a great one too every as soon as you hear it it just to me first of course thinking toys also just makes me feel good yeah right it just like it has that feeling of like friendship and belonging right like those that we're talking about like that song is oh it's mine Favorite Disney princess? Merida was adopted into the princess. Oh, Merida is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

1:08:14 Yeah, in fact. In fact. Yeah. And Ralph Breaks the Internet, right? They bring her in, but she's kind of like the different one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe that's why she's my favorite. Probably right, right? She's a little unorthodox. She's a great princess. She's terrific. Favorite ride at Disneyland or any of the Disney parks? I don't know if it's, like, my favorite. I've got memories of Splash Mountain. First time I went to Disneyland, I was, like, in a winter school, and Splash Mountain was closed, and we couldn't ride it. And I remember, like, walking away, like, I was, like, so sad. I'm sure it was a great trip, but I have this memory of not enjoying. Anyways, finally got back, and it's now Tiana's Bayou or something or other. Yeah, Tiana's Bayou. Yeah, it's actually not a very good ride. I mean, come on, let's be real. But for some reason, like, I mean, it's kind of got like a little hot take, bro. I don't like it. I don't. I think I think it was a miss.

1:09:16 I think I think they could have taken the actual story from the movie and made an incredible ride. For some reason, they didn't. They're much smarter than I am. There must have been something they figured out or they researched that people wanted something different. But I'm writing and I'm just thinking, God, if you just had followed the movie, this would have been incredible. I think as an example, like sometimes your dream or your ideas or thoughts or something is kind of better than it is right now. And for some reason, that's the way when I was a kid growing up, I remember wanting to do it. It's sad that I couldn't. And so, I don't know. It's kind of got a funny spot in my memory. Yeah. I really just miss Splash Mountain now. I wish they hadn't changed it, but I can't do anything about it now. Favorite? Lorkana, let's say card. I was going to say ink color, but I'm going to change that on the fly. Favorite Lorkana card. Do you have a favorite card you've got of all your Lorkana cards? How about we'll kind of go in between there. There's one of my favorite decks is a Amethyst Purple and Steel deck. And there's a Genie card in there that says the... the other characters can't ready their cards at the beginning of their turn. Um, and it's, it's, it's just, and, and, um, Audrey's son actually helped design that deck for me. And it's super silly and it's not very good, but when you get the combo off

1:10:47 and you get Elsa and Anna and Elsa's palace as a location, and then you get the genie out there, they all work together to make it. So the other guy just can't, the other person just can't play the game. You just went. And it's kind of just this funny little combo. So I think the card is genie main attraction is kind of a big one. But there's a lot of Anna Elsa because the idea is like you're freezing them. So they can't play their turn. So that's kind of a lot of Elsa. The Elsa tie -in comes in. Makes sense. What is the question or questions I should have asked you? Oh. And the answer might be none. I always like to tee it up just in case. Okay, good. I just want to make sure I missed anything. Sometimes I've missed asking people something they had in mind about the movie. And so I always want to give the opportunity in case I missed something.

1:11:38 Okay, fabulous. So the way, Dan, that we like to end every episode is we like to give people what we call three actionable takeaways. Jack. Something that they could put into effect in their life today or this week. So on this topic that we have, what are three, actionable takeaways you could give to our audience one figure out in your life what what is your third place what is a place that's not work and not home where you feel like you can like meet people and express yourself and make friends um just just uh so first of all you just reflect figure out what that is for you and if your answer is scrolling instagram that's not it this might be an opportunity to think a little deeper it don't have to be a game so it's a coffee shop maybe um maybe it's the barber shop or the hair salon or maybe it's in line of coffee i think that's where you make friends i don't know but but just take a moment to define to yourself like where is that place that I'm making a connection. And maybe for some of you, you don't have a good answer. And that might be a signal that there's a great opportunity for you to enrich your life by finding that other

1:13:13 place where you can be meeting people, learning new things and stuff. So that'd be my first ask. Love it. Number two. Play an old game that you loved from growing up. Actually. Let me retract that. It doesn't have to be one that you loved. But play an old game that you remember from going, okay, if you didn't love it, maybe it was Monopoly and you have that experience. But play an old game. And I actually think what I'm really saying is, like, have a little nostalgia. Have a little, take a walk down memory lane. My daughter's been playing Life recently. I think it's just like a... I don't know, it's an iPad version. She plays it on the Fire TV or something. So we got it on the wall for the baby. And she was like, should I go to school or not? And then he's out.

1:14:10 So yeah, play an old game. Take a walk down memory lane. Maybe it's Stratego. Oh, that was a great game. Yes, I remember Stratego. Stratego, right? Maybe it's dusting off a class at Black Brisk. And as you do that, you might realize that some of those games are still around and there's new variants of them, those legacy versions of those games that add another element to gameplay stuff. Yeah, play an old game. It's chess. And number three. It's play a new game. Play a new game. But really what that is, is it's actually about learning and growing. Like, learn something new. Find an opportunity to... Maybe it's learning something new, maybe it's meeting somebody new, maybe you don't know, but you get to try. So you start asking your friends or your kids or your spouse, and they can show you a new game that they've enjoyed. But it's less about learning a new game and more about learning something new just in general and expanding your horizon and learning something about the people around you and what they enjoy and spending time with them. Yeah, I love that. It's fabulous. Well, Dan, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me. Love talking about Wreck -It Ralph, Third Spaces, talking about your journey and things that you've experienced that you've overcome, and talking about games and how much that can bring to our lives when we find those spaces and those places to connect with community and

1:15:40 other people. Really appreciate your time. Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. As you lead this conversation, remember that, yes, the past can hurt, and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.