WALL-E and Building Safe Communities | Jennica Anusua on Human Connection in the Age of AI

0:00 To be honest, like, I never wanted anybody to feel alone. My loneliness growing up, being adopted and feeling out of place made me just... Never want someone else to feel isolated. The reason I survived orphanhood, adoption, cancer, like the things I've survived, was literally to build a community, to build a world, an environment that's like, you're welcome to come into this space and it will always be safe. Wally is like a little cute little robot. The story is really just about like human overconsumption. Basically, Earth has become uninhabitable and people live in space, but like they're... literally in these little pods rather than these little pods these little like hover machines and they have a screen in front of them all the time because they're never walking they're never doing anything physical they're not having any real connection yes and then i think the key point about wally is that even though wally is a machine he's built to be a machine he's like embracing the thing that it is to be human and like what we see is like this spark of humanness which is like this desire to connect. Not every room is meant for you at every time but I will say that all the rooms that are meant for you are waiting for you. There are people who are waiting for your most authentic self to be present with you because they want that. We have to start seeing things less as like failures and losses and more about like I'm a human figuring it out and I'm at this place.

1:26 right now welcome to yes and land where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today and we say and to the possibility growth and imagination of tomorrow Welcome to Yes and Land. So excited today. We have a good, good friend of mine, Jennica, here on the program today. Jennica and I have had loads of conversations and I always walk away from conversations with you just really feeling like my mind was opened and I thought about things in a new way. And so I'm so excited to share that with everybody else that listens.

2:12 And so we're really excited about having you on today. Um, uh, Jenica has a really, um, and a really impressive background. I'm being honest. Like it's pretty impressive. Like we're talking about a master's of health science from Johns Hopkins. We're talking about, uh, doing some education, getting a certificate at Harvard. You're at NYU currently, uh, you've worked in the mental health space, done a lot of great things for immigrants. Your experience spans continents and across the country. I mean, just bring a lot to the table, uh, of, of things that you've experienced. And so I'm really excited to see. kind of what we can talk about today to help those who listen. We're talking about, I think, a really timely and an important topic, something I know you're really passionate about, which is building safe communities. Yes. It's, of course, important to build community. I think right now in the age of AI, it's important to have connection, build community, but it's not the same unless it's with safety. That's why I think talking about that today is going to be something that I think a lot of people could really use. And we're going to look at that through a lens of mostly WALL -E today, but we might do a little touch on a little Moana here and there, maybe a little Encanto. We're going to see maybe a little Winnie the Pooh. Who knows?

3:23 It's kind of a surprise. You'll see. We're just going to see where this goes. That's the secret to the whole thing. It's kind of fun and surprising. That's right. That's right. Who knows? So, Jennica, maybe walk us back a little bit. How did you start into kind of the field of study that you were doing? Why, why did you start studying those things? Where did your initial professional career take you until you're where you are now? which is you're like getting ready to film a movie that you wrote. You wrote, you're going to star in it. You're filming in New York here in three weeks, I think you said. And so, you know, it's such an interesting journey. So take us all the way back and kind of walk us through that. I'll try to keep it relatively brief for all of you.

4:11 too arduous for us to traverse the pathways. But, you know, I'm adopted. And I think being adopted gives you like a lot of. interesting intersections with relationships. And like, I think I was just talking about this with a friend the other day about the idea of like blood being thicker than water, right? That like your family is like your bond. I have a little tidbit on that. Please. Do you want to hear it? Yes. So that is a very commonly misunderstood saying. Is it? Tell me. It is. So blood is thicker than water. Blood of the covenant is thicker than water of the womb. Interesting. That totally changes it. Which totally changes it to more of what you're saying. Yes. Right? That like when you have that bond that you create with somebody, that can be stronger than a familial relationship. Well, there you go. I know, right?

5:06 You kind of said the thing I was... Okay, there you go. I love it. I love it. The riff was perfect. Thank you for using your infinite knowledge. That's actually wild. I didn't know that. So yeah, I think like this idea though is like that you are like. inherently bonded to the people you're born to and that like they must be the closest relationship to you and I think being adopted like upends that idea just inherently because you're not biologically related to the person that is your closest familial family members or family member and so I think being adopted made me really interested in like identity and and like where does your identity come from and how and and Thinking through this idea of where you belong. And so that was always, I think, ingrained in me. My mom is very, very, very cool.

6:01 And everyone who knows my mom knows this. It's true. I'm just throwing it out there. It's definitely true. She has her PhD. Very educated. She was a single mom by choice and adopted my sister and I and another little girl between who passed. But my mom's very cool. And I think she also was very interested in mental health and supporting kids in particular. And so I think that was ingrained in the way we grew up. And then I just to be honest, like I never wanted anybody to feel alone. I think we all do. And in a way now in my adult life, I think there's like a. a healthy quality to understanding what loneliness feels like versus developing solitude versus like being in relationship with yourself and being in relationship with others. So kind of exploring that inter and interpersonal space has been a thing I've just always really cared about. And I think my loneliness growing up, being adopted and feeling out of place made me just never want someone else to feel isolated.

7:07 And so that kind of led me down this path of, like, how do I connect? And so I'm an artist. I would say I've always been an artist. So I connected through arts all growing up, violin, dance, singing, all of those things I've done, theater, acting. And then I think I also was a writer and was interested in that. And then I started understanding this other side of being a mental health professional. I became a teacher's aide when I was really young for kids with multiple disabilities. That was really powerful. And long story long, I kept going on that pathway. And I think I eventually just knew that there was like a beautiful union of mental health work with art and with creative expression. And I just started seeing these different ways we could build communities. And I think working with refugees overseas in different contexts and then also here in the United States. led me to doing specifically intervention development so I was like creating developing interventions that were running in different countries and here with different populations of people who had often like specific needs around healing or trauma um so how did you how did you get connected with that so what was that path yeah yeah education to going and working in other countries my education i mean i i moved to africa even like when i was young during my undergrad and so and i was working i'd been working with survivors of abuse and assault already um and

8:38 so i was really passionate about that world And then I was like, OK, I'm going to go to Africa. So I went to Africa. I was like. Was hired to be a Disney princess and then I went to Africa instead. So it's like this. Yeah, I like was Jasmine and then ended up in Africa. So I was in Africa and got to work with kids at the lowest socioeconomic status and like looked really I wasn't started out with me just being like, how do I help kids? How do I help these kids? And I had been working with survivors of abuse who were very young children in particular and seeing like. really meaningful movements forward and their ability to heal from really awful things so I was like this is possible there's a world here but I was like but what is the what's the magic to making that work and I finally got to this place in Africa where I was like it's not just at the kid level it's at the family level and like it's actually at this whole community level because it's not just the family who's taking care of this kid it's actually this entire village it's this entire group of people so I started looking at that as well And I think that started informing the way I thought about healing and safety because, I mean, I think it became very clear to me early on that you can't heal when you're not safe. So it was like, we can't even get to the part that I'm wanting to get to, which is like the breakout moment of like, okay. We're getting somewhere here in the healing trajectory. But you can't get there if the environment

10:09 isn't safe to begin with. So I started examining, like, where are the gaps in safe environments for kids to even feel safe enough to heal? One thing I would talk about parents with when I was working with survivors of abuse was these are little kids. It's like, well, you know. Once the kid is finally safe, you might see this uptick in their behaviors. You might actually see them act out more. And part of it is like the trauma gets stored in their body. And so then it has to come out somewhere. So like to even get to a place where we're having these breakthrough moments of like, wow, okay, I'm actually able to regulate my emotions. I'm actually able to calm down. We had to get. Into a safe place, let all the trauma kind of show itself and then handle those pieces and then create some healing that like created wholeness. What does it look like to create that safe space? Like what was missing and what needed to be done to create a safe space in which that could then begin to operate? Yeah, that's a great question. I think...

11:10 truly like for kids it's structure and consistency and um some predictability so that seems so obvious but for kids who have gone through really difficult things like what they can expect what they understand is like how do I create some sort of like okay mom will Mom will say this. Mom will do this. Mom will hug me. She'll come home like those type of things when they don't have that, when everything is different all the time. That lack of stability creates a lot of anxiety and tension and fear. And kids brains literally don't allow them to think like about the larger picture. They're not thinking macro. They're literally thinking about like, is this me? It must be me.

11:52 Even if they're not actively thinking that it's just that's why, you know, when people talk about. Parents got divorced and kids are like, that was my fault. It's like not because anybody actually said this was your fault. It's because that's the way kids' brains work. They're like, it has to be about me because my life is about me. It's so interesting you say that because there's so many times when I'm dealing with divorce as a divorce attorney and each side will point at the other to say, oh, they blame the divorce on me to my kid. Now my kid has taken it on themselves. That might not actually have happened. The child might have just absorbed that because they just blame themselves because. That's what the development of their brain is. It might not have actually been the other side trying to sabotage. It might have just happened. And like, I think that's the other thing in situations where like there's a fracturing, right? Like we can talk about any trauma as a fracture or like a difficult experience that has the ability to crack something. Like if I'm a whole piece of glass and then something hits me, like I can crack and I can have these cracks that appear in these different ways. And I think for kiddos, especially there's this sense that like, Like you have to adults often think in their adult brain about how kids think. But the reality is that kids think in kid brain.

13:07 And when I was working overseas and with refugees here, a lot of times I'd remind them like, OK, you've finally gotten out of a war zone. You're literally not in the war zone anymore. So the first thing I'm doing is putting you in a safe physical space. You're safe. But then all these things are the cracks start to show. because we put a thing over the glass or it was obscured by smoke because we're rushing the glass out of the war zone. And now we put it in a clean room where there's no war and now we see the cracks in the glass. And I think that a lot of our families, the parents were still in a survival mode where they were like... I have to just think of my kids as extensions of myself instead of like autonomous, unique individuals that they are. And so that is a thing I would remind parents a lot. It's like your kid just doesn't see it the way you think they do. And you experience the exact same thing, but they're a different brain and a different body. And their brain is at a different level of development than yours.

14:05 So you see all these factors and all these pieces. They only see it the way they see it. And I think to your point, like that's what we're talking about, right? Like these kids don't have the ability to neurologically. They're just not at the place where they can process it the same way. So we have to like. meet them where they are so I think that was really what led me to like what do I build how do I build safety I'm like well first I need to put people in a safe environment physically then I need to put them in a safe environment emotionally and psychologically to say like you're free to let those cracks show we need to like allow you to be exactly as you are and that really started with kids because kids do it They will just show you exactly what they think and how they are. And they will show you their their behaviors that maybe were adaptive in one context and are now not adaptive, not helpful. And so I think what I realized is I needed to provide. all of that in how I addressed these situations. So we would create psychosocial groups that took place in a community garden.

15:11 So it's like we're in a physically really beautifully, wonderful, safe place. I've secured that place. I've checked it out. Then we create, we open the conversation for these. families to talk about like what they're thinking and it's sort of free form there's no like rules about how we communicate except for out of respect we're respectful and we're thoughtful and we you know take care of each other and then we like establish what safety feels and looks like by demonstrating it and by embodying it ourselves and then we start doing practices that can build safety in our own personal bodies whether that's mindfulness -based practices whether that's um Breathing exercises, yoga nidra, like thinking about these ways to engage our physical body because when we experience complex and a lot of trauma, we are fractured from ourselves. Like if we think of those cracks happening in ourselves, it's like, oh. I have I cut off this part of my body like the trauma happened. I mean, if we're thinking about it in a very literal way, it's like, oh, the trauma happened to my hand. So I just stopped feeling my hand because I don't want to address that. So I'm just going to pretend like I don't feel it anymore. But that happens in this internal way as well. And you see how different people respond to traumatic experiences. You know, you have one person who's like, I forgot everything.

16:29 I don't remember a thing. And then you have one person who's like. hear and then hear and then hear and then hear and then hear about how they're talking because it's fractured so i think my um my mom went through a bit of that she had some very traumatic things happen when she was young and she blocked it out for decades decades and only once she was able to do some work with therapist and actually some um hypnotist work uh that like helped to bring that out could she really address and deal with it and she had suffered from depression for a long time but not really understanding why because she was fractured and she had she had that was it was too hard for her child brain to handle so that arm was never there exactly for a very very long time and the healing only came once she could actually understand that, that, that existed, that that happened and to deal with that fracture. That's exactly it. And when I lived overseas, you know, some of the work I mentioned to you before we recorded, but I worked with former child soldiers who were then adults. Right. And we're like talking about the literal reintegration of, of wound into, into community. Like how do we heal and bring people back in like this intermeshing, which is, I think, um, we. often neglect our bodies and I think the world we live in like loves that we want to be distracted in every given way but the reality is like the embodied self is the self that is probably our most centered and healed

18:00 and stable um But embodiment requires acknowledgement. And that is super scary. And so I often use that way of like almost the visual of how it felt to see these like adults who are child soldiers, like take their wounds and work. And then this community being like, OK, we're bringing you back in and we're intermeshing you and you're not part of. what we were because we aren't what we were anymore and you're not who you were but we're like bringing you back into this this healing process and I do think that it's kind of like what you're saying if we cut off our arm and then we're suddenly re -acknowledging its existence it's like we're sewing it back on right We're different. It's different. But we're like reattaching something. And then we have to learn how to love it again and we have to nurture it again. And so I think all of that is so vital. And in order for people to be able to even start that process, we have to create environments that facilitate it. And so we have to come from a centered space ourselves. But like offering that space. I believe like I kind of just came to this realization even this year it's like it keeps reoccurring to me over like periods of my life but um where I was like oh I think the reason I survived orphanhood adoption cancer like the things I've survived was literally uh to be this like to build a community to build a world and an environment that's like you're welcome to come into this space and it will always be safe and then like we will build you into the safest version of you with your

19:31 work and then you will go out and create safe spaces too and then it will continue to like expand beyond just me because I don't think it's actually about me I think it's about others in community for sure you know one of the things that struck me too as you were talking is um i think your work in in those war zones those other countries is so informative for us and i think maybe sometimes people miss it because If we're just looking at kids, I do some work with the Jordan Education Foundation. Yeah, very cool. And one of the primary purposes that they have is to provide these pantry packs. Because in Jordan School District, which if you're listening to this and you don't know this area here in Utah, it's a fine, it's a well -to -do area.

20:17 It's very middle class, right? And yet there are so many students. that don't have food they'll go home on a weekend and they don't need to eat and they'll have these extended uh you know a three -day weekend or a week off from school and them not being at school means they don't get to eat and how can they live in a safe place if if they don't have that kind of safety they don't have their physical needs met it's how can we possibly think that those kids are going to be able to learn and grow when they're worried about that all the time And they can't. I mean, you can't function if you can't nourish, if you're not nourished. And, you know, my mom used to work with, maybe run, she would correct me, but the Head Start program out in Sandy by Sandy Elementary. And I think, again, like, and I think back to my experiences overseas, it's like I watched people say like, oh, yeah, no doubt about it. This is our community. These kids, their parents died. They're my kid. And I really think that we've gotten away from that, not just in the U .S., I think just like a lot of places.

21:31 We've gotten away from this concept of like we belong to each other. um like we are each other's bond again like back to like the quote that I misquoted but you helped me it's like really like you you have your chosen family but your community the people you invest in not not just your time but like you feed them you nurture them like we we belong to each other um I always think about this like you know we talk about images of gardens and plants but I'm like We really like have this opportunity to flourish in this really beautiful way that spreads us further than I think we thought we could go.

22:11 But we have to be like. also the soil for one another. We have to be like a foundational earth, like that holds gravity where people feel like they can land and land safely and softly. Um, and I think we all deserve that softness and we deserve like a place to also make mistakes and experience what life is. Um, and I think we've become very afraid of, of, of all of it. We're afraid of communicating. We're afraid of connecting. We're afraid, but at the end of the day, that's what Brene Brown says. We're all armored up. We've got to protect ourselves. We can't possibly show that vulnerability because we don't feel safe. When we don't feel safe, we can't show it. And then when we can't show it, then we can't grow and we can't have that connection. We just lose it. And how do we know what safety is if we're not demonstrating it and experiencing it? I can't just be like, hey, you're safe. Hey, nice to meet you. Wave a magical wand and you are safe. Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't work that way. It really has to be like demonstrative in the way we live in our own bodies and then the way we carry ourselves into spaces. And and like I'm thinking about it, you know, because I've transitioned from mental health full time to filmmaking full time and acting and developing that world. But it's literally because I saw the stories I was working on or the stories that were coming out of these safe spaces with refugees where they were like. I didn't know if I was ever going to feel home again. And then suddenly I'm in this community with other people and now I want to talk and I want to dance and I want

23:41 to like have joy again. And, and I never thought I'd have home and I never had it before. And, you know, these Rohingya women saying like, I lost everyone in my family, but now I have family. Like those things changed my life. Like. it so much have changed my these people that I've worked with have changed my life and so I was like what how do I take what's right here and like give it a more space and help people who are totally external to this community understand this community better because I felt like there was a big gap between where I was working and the beauty I was experiencing here and what I was doing when I was interfacing with the external world of people people just didn't understand refugees so that was a big part of it but then I think it was also like how do I take what's being curated here and extend it so that we can keep humanizing each other and I kind of came to this ethos around humanization which was like my job as a filmmaker is to like humanize and re -humanize each other to to each other until there's no distinction in our humanness yeah and we see the distinctions in our beings and our experiences but there's no distinction in what what we understand about one another which is we are human and there's value there sure and so like if we are all on that same level that's safety Like that's a safe community to start with. So I just think in every industry, any industry, any job you do, like you have the opportunity to like explore yourself, your own being and like find safety within you.

25:14 And like that's hard, but it's powerful. And then you have the opportunity to go into every space you're in, every room you're in, every meeting you go into and say like, I'm going to be a center of safe experience and safety for the people here. And I'm going to like. Encourage it like, hey, let's have a meeting. Let's have a check in. How's everybody doing? Should we do a little exercise? Like there's so many ways to encourage what I think is safe, safe community building. When we look at, so we kind of talked about a little bit with the lack of that first step of safety, right? We talked about kind of the refugees, also the children in the other countries. We talked a little bit, obviously, about kids here and need to have their core needs met. What do you see, like, in our community with some of the lack of safety, that first step of safety for adults? Yeah. What have you seen?

26:01 Great question. So we're going to know where to start from, right? If we understand like, okay, here's the safety gap we have in that very first step of like actual physical, they've got to be safe before we can even get to this other one. Yeah, for adults, I think there's a self -acknowledgement piece that comes along with like recognizing where you're coming from, what you're doing. I think there's even like this embodiment piece that we talked about kind of with your mom where it's like, adults I heard a quote once that was like adult we're all just like our child selves now in adult bodies trying to like grapple with our trauma or whatever right like we're just like kind of our our child selves still in our adult bodies and I think um it's really about like how do you how do you live your life like I think there's a lot of like are you willing to sit down and unpack like Do I spend X number of hours on my phone or on the TV or whatever? Because the world around us is really designed to get us to consume, to buy things, and to, like, really distract us from time with ourselves in our own beings, in our bodies. And I think a lot of people, this is why a lot of people, like, get out into nature, do these things, because it's really just this way of existing in a mindful practice, in a centered way. I think what happens for adults is we get really wrapped up in the things we think matter

27:33 around resources, money, time, you know, like all the resources we have. And to me, time is quite literally like our most valuable resource. It's the only one you actually really truly can't get back or you lose. And so I'm like time is so, so valuable. And if you really sat down and thought like, what am I doing with my time? It's not just like. what am I working on it's like what am I actually doing with my body and my brain and my being in this time like am I present like even in my work am I present in my work right now am I like distracted thinking about other things am I like ready to get back on my Instagram or am I like present you know and I I think that's actually where I think the arts have such a powerful impact on people because I think acting the arts music i grew up as a musician i'm semi -professional violinist and music and then i also have done acting and dance all of those things force you a to be inside your body and and feel what's happening with it and like notice stuff and b they force you to be right here right now like you don't really have an option because if you're not present in any of those things nothing connects yeah it doesn't work It's like a broken chain link on the chain link fence. You're like there, but like the link is not connected. You're not doing it. And so I think I found that too because we did music therapy with kids overseas. And I write

29:05 poetry like I think anything that allows you to observe the world around you and and within you, both worlds is like really beneficial, especially for adults who I think have gotten away from that so far and really get lost in in the in the rat race of of whatever capitalist stuff we're worried about, to be honest, you know, and I'm not saying that those things aren't real. They are real, but like they also aren't the central thing about you. Right. Right. Yeah, totally. And I think this is actually really, it's a really natural lead into to Wally, right? Because, you know, I think as we talked about before we started is this is a cautionary tale. Yes. Right. Wally is. Eva, Wally. So for anybody hasn't seen Wally, if you wouldn't mind just kind of giving a 30 ,000 foot overview of what the story is. And then we can kind of dive into why this is a cautionary tale for exactly what we're talking about. Yeah, I think. Well, WALL -E is so cute. I've always really liked WALL -E, but I feel like not a lot of people like it. But if you do, if you're a fan, you're a fan. You get what I'm saying? So all you WALL -E fans out there, I see you. WALL -E is like a little cute little robot. And the story is really just about like human overconsumption, greed. I think like addiction to capital, to capitalism, to like things. And the byproduct of things instead of community. It's like breaking little community to the point where. Basically,

30:38 Earth has become uninhabitable and people live in space, but they're literally in these little pods. Right, they're in these little pods, these little hover machines, and they have a screen in front of them all the time. And they're not even looking at each other. They're not even interacting with each other. All their interaction is happening with this screen. So they've just become just super overweight, right? Because they're never walking, they're never doing anything physical, and they're not having any real connection. Yes, and then I think the key point about Wall -E is... that even though Wally is a machine, he's built to be a machine. He's like embracing the thing that it is to be human. And like what we see is like the spark of humanness, which is like this desire to connect. And he wants to connect. And so he finds another sweet little robot and they have a very cute connection. But I think like what I've always liked about that movie in the character of Wally is like, I think it also changes our idea. It makes us think about like. What is it that makes us human? And I think that is the conversation of right this minute, which is like, what makes us human and what do we want to preserve? A few years ago, one of my best friends was chatting with me about GPT in its earliest. I think it was GPT -2. And she was like, look, this is years ago. She was like, it's going to change the landscape of how we function. And I was like, I agree, but like, what do we do? And we had this conversation on the phone with each other where we were like,

32:08 what is it that we want to preserve about what is human? And, you know, a lot of people are now in this space saying like, well, look, AI will never take away what it is that makes us human and like these special things about what makes us human. I'm like, but what is that to you? What do you think that is? What is that? And what is that for you? Yeah, for me, it's like, I think it's the soul. I think it's the spark of what is our soul. And then I think it is our ability to like organically touch the hum of that which is living, not just human, all living life and create something beautiful from it, like community. And I think it's interesting because... I just think that when we get into this space, which is like Wally is the cautionary tale of, right? Like when we get so lost far into the things that are built to distract us and built to take our attention and our money and our time, our resources, we literally don't have the time and resources and energy to pour back into the thing that is just like. us this right here and then this right here this communication and i think um what's so cute about wally as a little guy is that he's also like he has like human curiosity and yearning and like that is

33:39 why i think people love wally as a character because we're like oh that's so true to us and i think the film is asking us like what is human What is human? What's uniquely human? What's not? And like, what do we want to keep in a world that's rapidly pushing us toward like what we don't like to a thing we don't know? I think it's wild to consider the fact that we get online and you literally don't know if it's AI or not. You're like, is that real? Yeah. Is it? I don't know. And my mom's generation, you know, they're like, they don't even know to know it's not real. They're like, oh, I saw this video of this like bunny jumping on a trampoline. And you're like, that's AI, mom. And she's like, what? What are you talking about? And I think like that's important.

34:22 But what I love is I keep seeing people in our generation and younger, especially saying like, we don't want that. We actually don't want that. Yeah, we like funny videos. But at the end of the day, we actually do not want to be disconnected from each other anymore. And, you know, I love that the Surgeon General came out with a warning about social media for teens. I think that finally Facebook is under that or Meta is under that lawsuit where they're talking about like in California about like, is this harming kids? Like, are we harming kids? And I think that's the conversation in my mental health world. I'm working and working with teens because that was a big part of my career as well in neuropsychiatric research and stuff like that is looking at like. What are teens being impacted by? How are their brains getting changed? And the reality is that social media just alone made kids feel more isolated and alone. For sure. And what is really helpful for kids is old school texting and phone calls.

35:25 Like they talk about, you know, researchers and experts will talk about like. The best thing you can do is like, yeah, let your kid have a phone, but let it only text because text is real communication. It's like actually having to practice talking to one another. But social media is not. And then we create these parasocial relationships. And so I think. when we talk about building safe community, not only do we have to key into like, who am I? What am I going through? What am I doing? Have I like, am I embodied? And am I living in my body and knowing it? And like, what's going on for me? And then do I feel brave enough to go into a space with someone else and be honest about that? And like, is there a space where that exists? I really like the idea of third spaces, right? Like the third space is the space outside of your home or whatever where you like can go when it's safe and I'm like yeah let's build more third spaces let's build let's go to more gardens let's go on more like let's be out in the world and then I think it's like once you've finally gotten that once you've disconnected from tech and like a world that like puts you behind a screen so you're not face to face and you're not like with other people um but once you start getting into the world where you're with other people then you can be like how do I keep doing this and how do i preserve this and still engage with tech or not and i think um i'm grateful because i think a lot of people are asking that question i think like there's been a big call for people to be like i just

36:57 want to be in nature again i just want to be with people again for sure so um let me i'm gonna read a couple quotes i'm gonna get to your take on them yeah okay Um, so there's one here and I want to start with this one because I think it goes back to this idea of kind of starting with ourselves. Right. Um, and, and then put it in context of, uh, this is by Jay Shetty and he's talking about, um, loving others. Right. Um, and he says, and we prepare for love by learning how to love ourselves in solitude. And so give me your take on that in the context of building a safe place for ourselves first. Yeah. I think, um, it's so funny we talked about solitude earlier a lot of people i think mistake uh mistake being alone is just lonely um and i think learning how to be with yourself and curating rainier maria wrote talks about this too right like what solitude is and i think a lot of our great writers in the world have done this where they're like very alone but then they're like oh There's a time where I finally built a relationship with myself where being alone wasn't scary and sad.

38:03 It was actually beautiful and wonderful and something that I needed. Even if you're an extrovert, you know, you need solitude. You were talking to me on that, right? Just now, literally just now, because that is totally me. Like I'm an extrovert through and through. And so many times I fail to take those opportunities for solitude because I like being around people so much. Yes, I'm the same way. But I, especially in the last couple of years. There's like the moments when I'm just sitting, it's just quiet, and I can like kind of do whatever I want, whether that's like journal or just sit there or I do a little like yoga with Adrian, you know, whatever that is. Like that is really important time. It's like this nourishment of self, giving back to self. And like how do you really know what you're like in relationship to other people if you've never understood your relationship with you through this solitude experience? You really have to do the hard work there. I actually think the work with self is often the hardest work. Genuinely.

39:06 And I think that's why it does start there. But I think once you start developing the tools, it becomes the most rewarding work. And it becomes the foundational work for what happens next. Yeah. Okay, so then to build on that, here's another one. And this one we might have to talk about a little bit. Because when I first read it, I was kind of like... So I'm really interested to get your kind of expert take on this. This is what Brene Brown said. We love her. We love Brene. Yeah, right? If you trade your authenticity for safety, you may experience the following. Anxiety, depression, eating disorders, addiction, rage, blame, resentment, and inexplicable grief. So if you trade authenticity for safety, in other words, a trade -off, like not both. Someone get your take on that. Okay, so I think this also gets into the definition of what safety is, right?

39:57 Yes, which is where I was hoping you would go. So I think what she's also saying is group safety or perceived safety within a community. So my thought about this is like safety as in like not experiencing conflict or like not experiencing, you know, so I'm like, okay. uh safety takes on a different term here it's a different version of what we're talking because we're not talking about like actual deep level holistic internal communal safety we're talking about um absence of reprisal we're talking about like the absence of conflict and the reality is that safe communities and safe relationships do bring conflict safe communities and relationships bring you into places where you have to be challenged and you have to be like do i like that it does that feel right to me and your authenticity is the only way you can hang on to yourself and actually be in a safe space i mean if we're sitting here you and me and we agree about absolutely everything like what have we really achieved we haven't built community per se we've we've built like camaraderie we're hanging out together but like you don't want to be in a community of people who think everything you think all the time and always agree with you you don't want an echo chamber at least you shouldn't you shouldn't because how do you grow right like and how do

41:28 you even if we're talking about like relationship to self and like We want our most authentic selves to show up. That means like you're going to get in the space. You might just disagree. You might be like, oh, I don't see it that way. How incredible is that? So in this situation, I think she's very much talking about like safety as perceived safety, which is like no one's going to criticize me. No one's going to make me feel bad. No one's going to think I'm weird. No one's going to say I'm dumb. I don't want to. But the reality is like you need to face those feelings when you stand up fully as yourself because you're going to find your right people. that way not every room is meant for you at every time but I will say that all the rooms that are meant for you are waiting for you there are people who are waiting for your most authentic self to be present with you because they want that and I want that like when I'm in these communities whatever it is whether it's my filmmaking communities whether it's writers whether it's other mental professionals whatever it is you know I want people to come into the room with their thoughts and ideas and maybe disagree with me or maybe push back like oh I love that That makes me not only feel closer to them, it makes me feel closer to myself. And it's the practice of standing up in authenticity that makes me like myself even more. It's actually building self -esteem. Can I challenge the, not necessarily challenge, but let me dig a little deeper on the idea of authenticity. Because this is one thing that I think there's potentially a lot of misunderstanding about what that means.

42:54 Because when I think about, okay, who's authentic Ryan? Who am I, you know, what is my real reaction? What is my, who am I at my core? Like, I think it's a lot of things. You know, I think like duality of man, right? Like, you know, sometimes like I... My self is to act irrationally sometimes, unfortunately. And sometimes my self is to overreact. Like, you know, if my kids do something wrong and I'm just like not feeling great that day, I might yell and I wish that I wouldn't, right? So what is this authentic self we're talking about? Because for me, when I think about it, the way that I like to think about it just personally that helps me is like the best version of my authentic self. So it's still me, but it's like...

43:43 It's the best version of me, me acting as the best authentic Ryan as opposed to like, well, maybe authentic Ryan would be a little bit jealous or would be a little bit crusty or would be a little bit selfish. Interesting. But that's not the version that I want to have come out. Yeah, that's so interesting because I was going to say to your comment, I think best in my mind is actually honest. Okay. Honest with the caveat of. keeping yourself in balance in terms of your behaviors that might be harmful like if we're not harming other people if we're like because i also want to talk about like safe spaces don't just mean not harmful yeah safe space doesn't mean oh there's no active harm happening like we're not hurting people no safe is not just we're not harming people it's we're actively keeping people safe like there's a difference between that i would say so that's like a kind of side tangent but to your point about authenticity I think it is okay to show up in a space that's actually safe as yourself as long as you're not harming people meaning so sometimes you are you're not perfect nobody's perfect and like actually kids learn the best when parents for example come in the space that they're sharing and maybe they do fly off the handle and then they what what we talk about a lot is like it's not what you did per se It's what you did to repair. The reparation is the most important part of the step. Kids often remember what happened, but

45:13 they really remember what you did after. They really remember how you took accountability for it or how you said, I'm sorry. You know what? I did yell there, and I didn't like that I yelled. And I think I got pretty upset, and my body was feeling really overwhelmed, and then I let that come out. I wish I hadn't done that. I'm sorry I did. That's what. people remember very often and then the active effort to not do it again that's what people that's what means something to people i don't think people are unwilling to forgive a transgression i think it's the like lack of accountability acknowledgement and then repair that that hurt people in the long term yeah It's not just apology. It's also repair.

45:57 You can't have just apology. No, the repair is everything. If I just say I'm sorry, then it's fine. Sorries are kind of meaningless if they're not followed with action, in my opinion. It's funny. It actually made me think about one of my, honestly, favorite people growing up. He was a teacher with my dad and being a principal, and he worked for Grant School District. He was a major administrator there. But I knew him because he was in my neighborhood. His daughter was the same age that I was. And he, at the time, when I was a teenager, was teaching a Sunday school class at our church. He was a teacher. And one of the kids in the class, she was always interrupting and talking, like always. And then she would say, I'm sorry. And I can remember him being like, hey, look. it's great that you're saying you're sorry but like you need to actually stop doing it and that stuck with me and they stuck with me for 30 years that it was like in that moment, like one of the kindest people I know, one of the most influential people I know, like just spewing wisdom. I was like, that was the most valuable thing I learned in class. And like, it's not enough. Yes. Like, it's great that you're sorry, but that's just not enough. The other comment I was going to kind of make about your thing about authenticity is I think we've like a little bit, like we veered off course with like kind of toxic wellness culture, which is like, there are a few things that pop up in toxic wellness culture. One is like, if I don't like the thing you say, boundary. That's my choice, and you've got to respect it. That's my boundary.

47:25 So I'm taking care of myself. But actually, what's healthy is you did or said this thing I didn't love. Can we talk about it? Because I love you. Like there's a relationship here, and I'm willing to work on it. Boundaries are important. I will never dismiss that boundaries are important, but boundaries are for the person setting them. That's the key. And they're not for the other person. That's right. It's okay. What the boundaries of what my behavior is and where am I going to set what I'm willing to tolerate? Not, not I'm going to dictate what you have. Yes. And I'm going to like step away if I need to. That's the boundary. Like, or this is how far I'm willing to go at this moment. But when you're trying to build healthy, safe communities and relationships, you need to be willing to go up against what's hard. Go up against the thing. So that's important.

48:09 I think the other thing that comes out of it is like, I'm my best self. I'm my authentic self. And I get to be whoever I want. It's like, well. you do in your spaces maybe in your solitude do whatever you want scream whatever but like think about how your actions actually do influence other people and consider that that matters and that other people aren't you and they aren't coming from your same like I think this lack of thoughtfulness of other people has like started to pervade this idea of like boss women it's me it's not all about women but you know it's like me only me top me first and I'm like I do think the idea of like take care of yourself first has gotten like a little bit twisted because again when I think about authenticity I'm like actually I think you need to be willing to say I do have these other parts I remember when I went to therapy you know in my therapeutic journey one of my one of the things my therapist said was like hey uh like have you considered that you're kind of like everybody else like that you also make mistakes and that sometimes people don't like you and they're going to not like you and that that's normal. And I was like, well, I can't survive if I make mistakes. Like, I can't make mistakes. I have to be right. And I had to realize, like, oh, my God, making mistakes is actually, like, a really normal. thing being not perfect is really normal and i think we need to keep showing that to each other and to the kids in our lives to be like you're not going to be perfect but you can still be good you can do good you can engage in good you can let the good that's in you feed other people's good and

49:40 it can create this like karmic cyclical thing but i think authenticity requires you to do both to be all of it so i would say that it's an honest representation of yourself yeah I really like that. I really like that. Yeah, I think to your point of what sometimes happens when people weaponize it is people will use authenticity just to excuse really bad behavior, rude behavior, cruel behavior, and they just use it to excuse it. Like, I'm myself. I'm myself. And that's not what it's intended for. And I'm like, but are you? Is this who you want to be? Like, I think that's the other question is like, yeah, I think you're right. Unfortunately, there's a shortcutting that happens sometimes when we use language. And I think... It really is like you need to be thinking about what's good for you while also holding the reality of where you're in, of the space you're in. And other people, like other people do exist. And they do matter. Like whether they're your top priority or not doesn't actually matter. They matter too. So it's like you've got to navigate the world that way. And I think a lot of us, especially with like online culture, like we've gotten away from that. We forget, like, there are people on the other side of these screens. These are people. And so I think that's really an important part of that. For sure. Okay, here's the next quote I wanted to get your take on. Quote. Hit me. This is from Simon Sinek.

50:58 Okay. Who's one of my favorites. Yes. Do you know who Simon Sinek is? I do. Okay, so he's so great. A team is not a group of people that work together. A team is a group of people that trust each other. Yes, okay. So this reminds me of when I worked more in the corporate world, and I was always like, your manager is supposed to be, like when I led a program, I was like, your manager is supposed to be behind you, not in front. Or they're supposed to be in front of you, either taking what comes, or they're behind you in the background, meaning they're letting you do the thing so you can succeed. And I think teams that function well... function because of the relationships and the trust they don't function well because everyone's like good at their job like being good at your job is a is a side component absolutely like and the thing is even people who are phenomenal at their jobs often don't get the opportunity to flourish unless they're in the right team where they trust each other and care for each other it's interesting um I think it was Tron one of the films that was made it was like I think it was Tron but when it was first made like the team there was like some misalignment if I'm and anybody in this space that seeing this could correct me on this so I will not be offended because I'm probably misremembering but it was like there was some misalignment with team or something and like the product didn't turn out great but then they went to redo either the second one or another film together that was not drawn and

52:30 the director like re put everybody in different positions where they thought they would shine and then that film was really successful and it worked really well and even in the film I'm making now and films I make in general it's like You have to be aligned. There has to be alignment. And the alignment comes from trust and care for each other. It's safety, actually, at the base of it. And it really is true that, like, people shine. in what they're good at and in their skill sets, like if we're talking about teams, like people do their job better when they trust you and when they're safe. And so if you can create an environment where people feel like seen, understood, valued, and then you like acknowledge their skills as well, then they're like, sweet, this person thinks I'm good and they kind of like me. And I trust that this person that's talking to me, A, is telling the truth, and B, is invested in me just as much as the outcome. And I think that's really important. And I think you kind of answered what I wanted to ask, but maybe let's just dig into it a little bit more, which is after we've done the work for ourselves, right, how do we then help to build that safety in whatever group it is that we're participating in? And that might be a group in our community. It might be in our neighborhood. It might be at work. It might be on set, right? How do we... do that? How do we actually create that safe space? Yes. Yeah. It's

54:02 such a great question. I think first it is acknowledgement of self. So like I'm having a bad day. I'm coming into my neighborhood PTA meeting or whatever. I'm coming into whatever group I'm coming into. And like, I know where I'm coming from. I think that needs to be our top. Like I know where I'm coming from. I'm aware. Then I'm like aware of who else is in the room. I'm paying attention. And then I think it's like active engagement. being present like i think that um like on set what there are a lot of like things that each position can do which is why i think it's a great example of this it's like you get on the set and your ad or your director is like hey everybody we're gonna introduce each other we're all gonna like get to know who everybody is by name, by face. And then we're going to do a little breathing exercise together. And we're also going to establish some like actual rules about how this is going to function, not just the day, but like how we expect people to show up and what we're requesting of you and also offering you resources if you can't show up that way. So like I do this where I'll say like, okay, everybody, like here's some of our, here's what the day is going to look like. Here's what we're expecting. Here's the type of communication we're hoping to have after we've done all the intros and everyone feels seen as themselves. And then we say like, hey, we're going to do a little breathing. We're going to do a little minute of quiet meditation, you know, just like we used to do for theater, like this whole idea. And then it's like. Now I'm

55:35 going to let you know that if you're feeling off, if something wrong is happening, if something's going on with you, you need to take a step back. You're safe to do so. We have a resource for you on the side. I will sit with you or I will check in with you. We will get you what you need and you're not going to be penalized for needing help. So I think like all of those things immediately established. I see you. I'm glad you're here. I value you because I know exactly why you're here. You've identified yourself as you choose to be identified, including your pronouns, your identity. And then you're offered an opportunity to connect to self and connect to the group.

56:15 And then you're also given opportunities for safety if something goes wrong. And you're not going to be penalized for life happening. I think that's the thing that happens a lot is we're like, if I have a life problem, I can't go anywhere. And then I have to suck it in or I have to like suffer with it alone. And it's like, no, in a safe community, you go to the right. point person you say I'm struggling say okay what can we do to resolve this what needs to happen here's what's possible like I think a lot of it has to do with the resource of time and energy it's like are we willing to put in enough time and energy to help people understand that it's okay for them to be human and then that humanity will be honored and addressed as it comes up that like I think people are like oh I'm wasting time I'm wasting energy I'm wasting money it's like But it wastes more time, energy, and money if you're not doing what you're here to do. It wastes more time, energy, and money if we're not sure what's going on. It's much better if we communicate clearly, if we're present with each other. So I think it's really simple things about communication and offering the opportunity for people to show up authentically, honestly, and then handling things as they come. And I really think communication is the key. across so many things because if I'm the leader of the team and I just say this is what I need this is what I expect this is how I kind of expect it to be done but I've also built in wiggle room if things change and like let's communicate like if you if you communicate

57:47 really honestly clearly and with respect and you expect that other people in response to you, hopefully that's what you get back, and it's like this beautiful symbiosis. Sometimes that doesn't happen because people are showing up however they're showing up, and that's an opportunity for you to kind of do intervention of like, hey, can we, let's check in. But that's kind of where I see it actively coming to life. So in that vein, here's something I've struggled with lately, maybe you can help me think through, which is in an effort to acknowledge that life sometimes happens and to give people grace for it, Where's the breaking point though? Where's the line? Because at some point in time, somebody just can't be a part of that thing anymore because they can't show up. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that they're a bad person, but it might mean that they're just not cut out for whatever that thing is. At that moment. Yes. Yes. How do you find that? Yeah. I think that's a really good question. I think this also like comes up in relationships a lot where people are like, when do I break up with somebody? when do I what do I do and I'm like I I think we need to not be so afraid again of like what is the mess because what is the mess is part of what's human back to like our souls our humanness like we love our humanness we need to actually act as though we do and I do think you know and I've had this experience in different arenas of my life where I'm like hey You know, we've kind of we've checked in. We gave you a little bit of an opportunity.

59:11 You know, you kind of said this is what you would like to do. We together we problem solved and you came up with a thing. But then I saw that it was difficult again, you know, and I think it is really dependent on the situation, because if it's like, look, I needed this last week and it's been a full week and we haven't I haven't heard from you. I'm not sure what's going on. I think. you know, you can decide what the outcome is that we're working toward. Like if we're working toward a joint outcome and like your job is like very, what you're doing, the skills you bring are like very integral to making that job happen. It's like at some point you've got to say, this is really what I need from you, which is again, why I think. clear communication the whole way through like I see you're struggling I'm present with you let's adjust what can we adjust we adjust that doesn't work okay let's see if we can adjust again if that makes sense but if you're like I really only have a day maybe this is the time to step away. And that, again, I think clearly communicating, this isn't about you as a person.

1:00:13 This isn't a personal indictment of you. But what it is saying is this thing is requiring something that you're not quite capable of offering at the moment, and that's okay. There's just a misalignment. So we're going to let you go do the thing you need to do. I'm going to do this other thing. And then like eventually we'll find another way maybe. Or who knows? Like maybe you'll move into a new thing that's better for you. I think in acting, they always say like every rejection is redirection. And acting provides like such a great reminder that like. Because you have to or else you'll go crazy. I don't like saying going crazy. You have to or else you will, like, not be unwell, I would say. Is, like, you have to remind yourself that, like, it's not about you. specifically you it's about like a lot of pieces and things you probably don't understand and that like it really is like the moment you lose something like it's just opening the pathway for you to do something else and move somewhere else and I think that's true in life I think that's true in relationships I think like we have to start seeing things less as like failures and losses and like permanent and like like permanent marks on our personal record as a person and they say something about us and more about like i'm a human figuring it out and i'm at this place right now with me and this place right now with this team or this place right now with this project or this place right now with this relationship. And as I keep moving

1:01:43 through my life, things will ebb and flow and change and I will grow and I'll get better and I'll whatever, right? Hopefully. But I would say like we have to be willing to be honest about the fact that sometimes things aren't meant for us at the moment or they were and then they misaligned and we have to move on. And it's the kind of that doing so with grace. Yeah. And like when we're the person in charge of the team, I think we have to like be really gentle because that's not how people see things often. But I think like offering people the opportunity to be like, maybe this just wasn't the right fit right now, but you are great and it's going to be okay. Like whatever comes next will be okay. It's just like we have to keep doing this other thing.

1:02:27 And if you can't be present for it, we're bummed, but that's okay. Like, everything is going to be fine. And sometimes with films, I'm like, guys, we're not flying Artemis 2. Like, we're okay. You know, like, we're going to be okay. It's going to be okay. It truly is. But I think people get so afraid of what things mean. And I'm really, like, also, like, I really want to leave room for people to, like. make mistakes and be human and I think like sometimes people are like oh well I messed up at this job and now I'm never going to get a job again because they're going to go and tell everybody and it's like I kind of wish we didn't do that unless someone's like unsafe or we're like really worried about harm i'm like let people be human and i think it's okay to be like they were going through a hard time when i worked with them and so we had to let them go but i think they're a great person and they would succeed in this other environment very well like i think we need to be generous with each other in that particular way too for sure yeah i totally agree yeah that's excellent um okay so let's go to A this or that segment.

1:03:33 Yeah. Okay. You ready for this or that? Yes. Yes. I love segments. It's going to be just, you know, if your opinion is controversial, you might have to defend it. Oh, okay. But let's just see how that goes. And then after that, we'll do a rapid fire. Okay. Sorry. My friend is buzzing. So I was like, I just didn't want to be loud. You're good. You're good. Okay. Okay. Here it is. Wally or Eva? Oh, Wally. Okay. Okay, I would say that as well. Wait, is this like a you and me if we disagree to defend it? Well, I mean, if I disagree, I might ask you to defend it. That's actually a good point. I was like, I kind of want to see. That's actually the way I've usually done that. Yeah, I'm like, if I call you out, I'll be like, hey. You're like, okay, girl. Yeah, I'll be like, we're talking about Kiva. Okay. Always amazing. Hover chair or walking? Walking. I'm going to say yes. I mean, a hover chair is cool if we actually had that technology, but like. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about how walking's helpful. We're here, like, investing in, like, AI. And I'm like, bro, could we just, like, invest in making my life easier? Like, what happened to the Jetsons plane?

1:04:36 I mean, what happened to Back to the Future, right? His hover skateboard. Like, where are we with this? Could we invest in, like? Something that makes it easier for me to remove all the fur from my clothes? My dog fur that's not a roller? We've got to be spending this money some other way. Give me tech that makes my life improved. Nothing's there yet. Okay, phone call or text? Phone call. In every context? Well, here's my weird caveat. Voice messaging. You like voicemails? Voice messages like text like you like though you like those I do I actually there's I don't use them for some reason But I actually think they're really effective there I think I need to start doing it more. Okay. That's going to be, this is going to be, yes. Yeah. I love it.

1:05:27 That's, that's going to be what I do. Yeah. I also like, you know, Marco Polo and stuff. Like it's fun to see the other person, but it's still like, you can still respond when you need to. Cause the nice thing about text is like, you can't always respond to a text right away. Although I feel like the world has become like respond right away to emails and texts, um, always be available, which is another problem. But. I'm like, yeah, I want to be able to have the freedom of watching and reading when I'm ready. But I also like the context of hearing people's voice and how they feel and think. So it's like the blend. So for me, it's voice messaging. So good. So good. Okay. And people who know me, like my friends out there, they know that I'm like an insane voice messenger. Like, I love them. You are obsessed. Okay. No, I just like leave really long voice messages. So it's not like a 20 second.

1:06:16 No, they're like at least four minutes. Wow, okay. I don't want to say. When you listen back to those, can somebody listen to it at like one and a half speed? Yeah, you can speed them up. Oh, see, that's amazing. See, I'm even more of a proponent now of this. Because I always listen to like every podcast, every audio book in like 1 .75 or 2. Yeah. I'm a big podcast girly too and audio book girly. And I usually do like 1 .5 on that. But sometimes I want to just chill with them at their speed. You never know. Sometimes I want a slow day. Well, it's funny when I go down to one, how slow it seems. Yeah. What I've also realized listening to this podcast is I talk really fast. So when I speed it up. You've kind of always been a fast talker, fast. Anytime I've performed on stage, I've always received the direction that I need to slow down. Does your audience know that you're like a very proficient, wonderful actor? They probably do not. Yeah, I haven't talked about it much. Oh my gosh, this guy's an actor. And he's so good. He's like this man of many talents, but he's an actor. That's how we really know each other. It is. It's very gracious and kind of you. There is something so fun about being on stage. in the bond that you build with the people that you're doing it with, with the bond that you're creating with the audience. It's unique. Which you can't create in any other way. Literally any other way. It's just so, it's really special. It's powerful.

1:07:35 And I love it. Talk about safe community. That's like a really beautiful community. No question. Okay. Dinner party or backyard bonfire? Oh. this really has to do with the food. It's going to be dinner party for me. Yeah. Just purely based on the food or like dressing up fancy versus being super cash? Well, I do love dressing up fancy. Fame. I love me a gala. Look at you. Yeah, you're a fancy guy. I also, I love dressing up fancy. So yeah, I also love good wine. But for me, dinner party feels like. We prepped a specific spread of food. And it's like, because I'm all about that. I'm like, I used to have wine flight parties where I'd prep specific food to go with a different wine. See, I don't drink. But if I did, I would drink wine. And it would be so that I could pair it with food. Because I love food so much. Food is amazing. Wine is there to be paired with it. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay.

1:08:39 Here's our rapid fire. Okay. So just first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. Okay. Favorite Disney movie. Encanto. Oh, so good. One of my very favorites ever. I just love it. I just love it so much. It's actually, that is my absolute favorite. Oh my gosh. It is. I just like, so I love Lin -Manuel Miranda so much. I love the music. I love the story. There's so many things about it that like life lessons. I never don't cry. Like I cry every time. When they start singing Dos Horiguitas, like girl, and because I speak Spanish too, for me, like there's this extra connection I feel like I have because that song in Spanish is actually more beautiful. Same. I agree. I listen to the album in Spanish. I watch the movie in Spanish. I'm all there with you. My 10 -year -old, she is in dual immersion right now. Why? I play Name That Tune Disney with the kids all the time in the car. She always wants me to play the Spanish versions of the Encanto songs. That's the way to do it. That makes me so happy. I listen to Spanish music mostly, primarily. But then I also will say Monsters, Inc. is a big fave. It's very good. It's a big fave. It's very good. Childhood fave was Aladdin.

1:09:51 Okay. See, yeah. You're hitting some great ones. Like, yes. And Lion King. When I was a kid, I mean, Jasmine was the bomb. She is. And Aladdin was so cool. And Aladdin's like, oh, I'm just like a rebel, so I don't know. Exactly. Like, every kid, every boy wanted to be Aladdin, right? Like, oh, man, he's so free and cool. Yeah. And he's got the best girl. Okay. And along that vein. Maybe we know the answer to this. Favorite Disney princess? Jasmine. Although my very close runner up is Tiana. I'm a huge Tiana fan. I wasn't before, but the more that I've watched it, the more that I actually really enjoy that movie and the music. It also has a great villain, which we will come to in a second. I love Tiana. I love Mulan. I love Pocahontas. Those are my girlies.

1:10:43 Favorite... Disney hero or heroine? Oh, oh, this one's actually harder. Like, okay, give me yours. Mulan. Okay, so we can make them be a princess still? Yeah, because I see Mulan as a heroine. Yeah, me too. Because that's who she is. Like, I love Mulan. Now, number two is probably Hercules, but Mulan's my number one. I love Mulan, actually. I really like Emperor's New Groove. Okay. So I'm like, I don't really, but I would say actually say Mulan is probably my favorite hero as well because she's like so cool. She is so cool. Like there's so many things about her story. She literally saves China. Yeah, like she has the best hero's journey. She does. And I just adore that movie.

1:11:39 And then I would probably say like Mike and Sally. And then I'd probably say, because I love Monsters University. And then I really love whatever one I just said. The movie I just watched. Oh, Emperor's New Groove. But there's not. Are they heroes? Is there a hero? I mean, we can go with that. I actually, this is going to be, hopefully I don't ostracize anybody. I don't love that movie. Oh, wow. And here's why. I've watched it once. It was by myself. And I don't usually, especially if it's a comedy, I have to watch a comedy with somebody else. To me, it's a shared experience of watching something, enjoying it, and having a connection with the person I'm watching with to enjoy the humor. When I'm just by myself watching a comedy, I just don't have the same buzz for it. Oh my gosh, that's so interesting. And Richard Grieve is one of my favorite movies ever. But I do want to kind of go outside of traditional Disney here for heroes. Cassie and Andor. Okay.

1:12:40 And Anakin, like, he's not a hero, but he's, like, an anti -hero. And, like, I love Anakin Skywalker. I think Andor's a really interesting one because I was actually having this discussion with somebody early on, actually, our second episode. And I think he's an interesting one in the Star Wars universe because he's one of the heroes that doesn't have the Force. Yeah. One of the very few. Like, in all of Star Wars lore. Kind of like the Batman. Yes, he totally is. Yeah. And he's so compelling. I know. And it's so good. And I grew up loving Ahsoka as well, like I've always loved. So funny side note about me is my very first video game that I played twice through, three times through, that I was like, oh my gosh, I can't get enough of this, was Knights of the Old Republic on Xbox. And my handle for video games is still Revan because I'm like a huge Revan fan. So I just like, I love that universe. And so I feel like there's some great heroes there. But I'm all about the like broody anti -hero a little bit. So I'm like Cassian Andor, Ahsoka, like Anakin. He's not the hero, but he's the hero. Ahsoka, she's really good. In fact, when I go get my lightsaber, at Disneyland, which I will do this year, it's going to be the dual -wheeled Ahsoka ones because I wanted to. When my son got one a couple of years

1:14:12 ago, he got Emperor Palpatine's, and he kind of wanted Ahsoka's, and then I've had my eye on it since. I'm finally like, next time I go, I'm just getting them because they're rad. Am I going to use them ever? Not unless I'm playing around with him and we're just goofing off, but I still just want them. They're so cool. Like, if we're hopping through the universes, then I'd also have to say Black Panther. Like, he's... Okay. Yeah. So good. Yeah, Black Panther's fantastic. Oh, sorry. Yes, hit me. Because I don't know if this is Disney now, but, like, Spider -Man and Miles Morales are my favorite heroes, like, period. Okay. Who was the second one you just said? Miles Morales. I don't know who that is. I know, I know. I'm so sorry. He's Spider -Man.

1:14:53 He's Spider -Man? He's Spider -Verse Spider -Man. Okay, see, there you go. I guess I don't know enough. Come on, Spider -Man fans out there. I know, man. Spider -Man fans out there will be like, Ryan, what are you talking about? What are you thinking? Because Spider -Man's everything to me. I love Spider -Man. I mean, I would call it Disney adjacent now. It's Disney adjacent. Because they acquired Marvel, right? That's why I'm not going with it as my top choices. It was adjacent, yeah. So I went classic Disney, then we traversed into Pixar a little bit, then we went further into Star Wars, and now we're going further. Okay, so hit me with this then. On the fly, rapid fire. favorite Spider -Man actor? Oh my gosh, this is such a hard, I have like a real full answer for this. You wanna know? Let's hear it. Okay, so I believe, okay, I love Sam Raimi and I feel like those films are like, you know, they're core. They're core films for me in my life. So I feel like Toby is really good at like broody Peter, like trying to figure out, like Peter in his family life, Peter in the world. I feel like Andy is the best Spider -Man, like in the suit, he's the best Spider -Man. And then I think that Tom is the best like...

1:16:02 Peter at school. Peter, like, nerdy, like, kind of kid. He gives the most kid energy. I think the best Spider -Man is Yuri Lowenthal, the guy that voices him in the video games. And I think that Miles is my favorite of Spider -Man. Man, that is somebody who loves Spider -Man. That is very thorough. Yeah. I love that. But I, like, really think if you like Spider -Man at all... which i feel like you do so you got me if you like spider -man at all go back and watch the amazing spider -mans okay like go back and watch andy because i feel like those got a little bit like shit on can I say that like a little bit like denigrated and then like glossed over but if you watch the movies granted he is kind of like so beautiful and you're like no guy like this would ever be like not liked but he's like too likable but if you ignore that part of it and you just watch those movies they're great movies and I think he's really good as Spider -Man I think that Toby again is like really good at being like the tension with his family and the tension with his best friend and, like, all those elements. And then I really think Tom is kind of the blend, but he really captures, like, the youthfulness and the nerdiness. So I think they all have their strengths. But my favorite actor is probably Andy because I personally have, like, the biggest crush on him as a person. I get it. I love him. As an actor, I have a huge

1:17:34 acting crush on him. I'm like, I want to act with this person so badly. He's just a phenomenal actor. Extremely talented. Yeah. Okay. Favorite Disney villain? My favorite Disney villain is, oh, I had this in my head just a minute ago. It's Darth Maul. Okay. Give me a strictly Disney, not Disney adjacent. Not Star Wars. Okay. Darth Maul is a great one. I mean, my goodness. Is he like the most iconic? I love him. My favorite Disney villain is Maleficent. Actually, the white queen. The one from Snow White. The evil queen from Snow White. She's my favorite villain. How come? She's badass. First of all, she turns herself into an old hag lady. And I honestly think she's pretty evil. Like she's legit evil, but she's also kind of like really cool and hot and strong.

1:18:32 I'm like, she's like, it's funny because. As I got older, I was like, I kind of want to be one of these villains. Like, I love Ursula. I love Maleficent. I love the Evil Queen. But Snow White is actually one of my very favorite Disney movies across the board ever. Like, it's a classic. It's one of the very first. I just love Snow White. I love that story. And I think I once wrote an essay about Disney. Disney's stories and how they, like Disney's interpretation of stories and how they changed our ways of thinking about morality and folklore and stuff. And Snow White was the example I used. But yeah, I love the Evil Queen in Snow White. I think she's really cool. She just has a cool outfit. Yeah, she does.

1:19:20 She's stylish. Snow White's a classic. Who's yours? Who's your favorite villain? You know, it's probably Scar. I think he's really good. Got a great villain song. You know, Be Prepared is, like, such a great song. Also, he's, like, weirdly hot. As a lion. Who else I like, too, a lot is Hades. Also another really good villain. To me, Hades isn't a villain. Well, because he's, like, I've had this experience with people. He's good at doing his job. He's, like, this is my job. Yeah. I'm the god of the underworld. What else am I supposed to do? Right? I'm out here just doing my thing. And he's hilarious. I don't think he's a villain. He's so hilarious. Although I will say this. I love pain and panic. And so a lot of times lately I've been saying, like, I've been using this funny voice. And I'm like, you know what it is? It's the voice when he's like, do you remember when all the girls were named Brittany and all the boys were named Jason?

1:20:10 He's, like, getting smashed. I love Pain and Panic. I think they're amazing. I love Hades. I don't see him as a villain. That's fair. Zeus is the real villain in Greek mythology. Oh, okay. Greek mythology, okay. I mean, they probably don't paint him that way in Hercules the movie, but in Greek mythology, I'm with you. Zeus is the bad guy. That's good. Okay, so to kind of take us to a conclusion, what we like to do is we like to give everybody three actionable takeaways. Yeah. Three suggestions of what somebody could put into action today or this week that will help them to, in their own lives, create safer communities. I would say action item number one would be like practice presence. So whether that's like coming home, turning off devices and like sitting for 10 minutes to 30 minutes and doing some observations of what's around you, what the sounds are, how you're feeling, like doing some presence work, I think is my first actionable item. Excuse me, because that's like a connection to self. So I put that as number one, like start curating self connection. And like, I think that can lead to solitude. I think that can lead down some really cool pathways. I know you and I talked in our prep about the artist's way, but like this idea of journaling or like getting into a space where you're just like really paying attention in a really. Like all of your energy

1:21:42 is there. All of your time is there. All of your intention is there. So I think that would be action item number one. Action item number two is maybe make some observations about the spaces you're in. Like, do they feel good? Do they feel safe? Like, what does safety mean to me? Like, I have challenged people I've worked with in the past to think about this. Like, what is the thing I want from the spaces I'm in? Like, what would make me feel most like myself in them? Where do I feel like I could be the most creative? Like, those kind of things. So I think if you can define what safety would feel like to you and start observing your spaces and being like, do I feel like I'm myself in those spaces? Yes or no? And I start from there and start going down like, well, what would need to shift for me to feel that way? And who would I need to talk to and things like that? And then I think my third is like try to connect with someone else, like about something that you love or about yourself, like the way we build communities with each other. So it's like get. get an opportunity this week at least once to connect with someone that's not immediately available to you like not your kid or your partner but like someone who you have to put some effort into connecting to and like do it over like the phone or maybe voice messages maybe a voice message I think that's the recommendation do a voice message or in person yeah and like surprise yourself

1:23:15 like practice hey like I read this book or I listened to this thing. Like, what do you think about it? I'd love to hear your thoughts and like practice the active actions around building community with each other. Those would be probably my three actions. Absolutely fantastic. Um, so appreciate you taking the time today. Um, I always love having a discussion where I feel like I really learned a lot and I came away from this really learning a lot. Well, that means a lot to me. I feel, I feel like, I don't know. I just, It's really great. Thank you. And I think having more of these conversations with people is what's going to help us in this tech world that we're in, in this age of AI. Yeah. Building these safer communities that we can be in, that we can be authentically ourselves. And I think it's just going to lead to richer lives, better lives, and better community. I hope so. better off i i hope so and i will say too you know like i was telling a friend the other day like think about everything around you everything we're looking at like came from the earth i think we like have removed ourselves from not knowing which is i think another thing wally brings up you know it's like everything you touch and look at like came from the earth so like it's okay to want to like take care of the earth and like taking care of each other is taking care of the earth too so i think like we we can do that like we can really put the work into just like connecting in this organic special way and i think you're right like i think it's going to heal a lot of

1:24:45 people i think it's going to help people feel less afraid of what's next and we like can then move forward with a lot more like love and confidence and sense of sense of safety thank you so much thank you As you leave this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.