Turning Red: What Your Teen's Meltdowns Are Really Telling You | Mitchell Acton

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Most people will choose familiarity over functionality.

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I'm going to choose what's familiar. That feels

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safer to me than choosing what's a little bit

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more functional. Sometimes as parents, we forget

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that. Like, oh, they're just being so difficult.

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Oh, they're just so hard. Like, actually, I think

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their brains are developing. Like, this is kind

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of the way it's supposed to work. Yeah, actually,

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I'd be more concerned if that really obedient

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kind of phase that you see a little bit more

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with children, that was also happening into adolescence.

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Potentially, is there a developmental delay here?

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I think the panda is partially a metaphor for

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puberty and just going through puberty and all

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of those changes. But I think it also represents

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some of those suppressed thoughts and feelings.

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Mei Lin is interpreting as like, oh, I can't

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share this thought or feeling. because it's going

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to make my mom sad. It's also interesting to

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me to see how big mom's panda was. To me, that's

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an indication of how much she had suppressed.

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And then you get that brief picture of her as

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a child and that inner child piece of it. I'm

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going to lose this relationship if I try to set

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a boundary. But she finally opens up about that

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and gets to the core of, I think, what her worst

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fear would be. I set a boundary with you and

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tell you really how I feel. You're not going

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to love me anymore. If you're not... aware of

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your system then you're just reacting to your

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system welcome to yes and land where we say yes

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to the reality of yesterday and today and we

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say and to the possibility growth and imagination

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of tomorrow Welcome everybody to our next episode

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of Yes and Land. We are very excited today. We've

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got a terrific guest on tap today. I'm very excited

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to dive into some really fun, interesting topics

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that I think are really applicable to a lot of

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parents today. Today we have Mitchell Acton,

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who is a terrific individual who I've known for

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a little while. He's the clinical director at

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Kane Counseling, which is a terrific place, and

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it's well -deserved for him to be the clinical

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director. Loads of experience. He does this,

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both sees his own patients, but also helps the

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people over at that place as well to do some

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amazing things for a lot of people. So we're

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very excited to have you on today. Super excited

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to be here. This is going to be a lot of fun.

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Yeah, it's going to be a good time. So today,

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part of our topic is we're going to be looking

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at... Emotion suppression. We're going to be

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looking at some things like enmeshment versus

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empathy. Also on how we can better understand

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and deal with our teens when they're going through

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a lot of things. Oh, yeah. As teens do. Yes.

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And we're trying to understand them, trying to

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be better parents, trying to help guide them

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better. So, again, really excited about what

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that can, where we can go with that conversation.

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And we're going to look at that through the lens

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of a Disney Pixar movie, Turning Red. Yeah. Which

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is so... on point for this topic. Absolutely.

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Right. Yeah. As I rewatched it and we had kind

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of had our pre conversation, I'm like, oh, my

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goodness, this is so applicable. There's so many

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lessons to be pulled out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. As

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I remember the first time I watched it, I was,

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you know, especially my clinical brain watching

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it, just observing all of these things. And it's

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actually become something that I've actually

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recommended to some of the families that I work

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with is to watch this movie because it explains

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and shows. these dynamics play out just so beautifully.

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Oh, that's fantastic. I didn't know that. Amazing.

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So Mitch is oftentimes what people call you,

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right? So we're going to go Mitch. Maybe I sometimes

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pop into Mitchell. Who knows? We might play by

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how that goes, right? I respond to both. So,

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you know, you can call me whatever you want.

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Just don't call me wait for dinner is what I'll

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say. So you're on time guy. Yes. Yeah. You're

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always on time. I like that. I like that. I could

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probably use some of those lessons. Strive to

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be. And then I always stress myself out when

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I'm not, but I'm not always perfectly on time

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either. Is what it is. We all deal with things,

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right? Absolutely. That's right. So Mitch, kind

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of take us back a little bit. What got you into

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therapy and social work from the get go? Like

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what inspired you to go in that direction with

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your career? Yeah. Yeah. So I never thought that

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I was going to do that. Like if you would have

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asked me when I was. a kid, teenager, I wouldn't

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have told you like, yeah, I want to be in the

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mental health field. I think I always had this

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quality of kind of being. Oh, like my friend

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group growing up, they call me the glue guy,

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you know, the glue that kind of keeps everybody

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together. I certainly helped like mediate conversations

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if some of my friends were in conflict with each

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other and kind of be the peacemaker, so to speak,

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there or be supportive of people. So I think

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that was just something naturally about my personality.

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You know, certainly I've done personality tests,

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too. And, you know, I'm a helper. by nature,

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my personality. But I actually have always been

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really passionate about history. And so I went

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to college. I originally went to study history.

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And then in the midst of my collegiate journey

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and kind of popping around between a few different

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majors, I ended up taking a general psychology

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class. And in that point in time, in that in

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that point in time, I think I was struggling

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with some depression and anxiety as well. And

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just like kind of not. really known direction

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or where I was headed next. And I was learning

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something really interesting every single time

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I would go to that class period. And so I ended

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up meeting with my student counselor over at

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University of Utah. Ask them we know what what

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career options are there if I were to go into

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psychology? And she actually linked me to working

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in a residential treatment center with with teenagers

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with teenage boys And that was kind of my first

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job in the mental health field that went around

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here locally. Yeah Yeah, it's actually just over

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in Draper called gateway Academy But it's it's

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yeah loved working there worked there for a couple

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years as one of the main full -time staff And

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it was there that I learned. Okay. I think I

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want to go into mental health as a career. I've

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had some education in it. I've had some actual

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experience in a workplace environment. So I ended

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up going back. I ended up choosing the Master

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of Social Work degree program at University of

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Utah, which was great. I loved it. And yeah,

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that led me to being a licensed clinical social

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worker and worked in a few different places up

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to this point. But yeah, now I'm clinical director

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over at Kean Counseling Center. Amazing. Here's

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a question for you. As you've looked at these

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things, and you probably have about yourself

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as well, where did that come from where you were

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kind of that person who was always mediating?

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That comes from somewhere, right? Yeah. Was there

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experiences that you had where you were kind

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of forced into that? Or why do you feel like

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that was kind of where you ended up being drawn?

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Because I was a little bit that same way. Sure,

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yeah. That definitely was like I was the guy

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that was trying to, you know. bring people together

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bring tensions down like yeah always that guy

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yeah You know, it's hard to pinpoint. And, you

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know, maybe I should do some of my own therapy

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more about that. But but there's I think there's

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a certain point or like the thing that really

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stood out to me that I know I know about myself

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now is that I really value connection and I really

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value connection in relationships to the world

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around me. You know, whatever connection is really

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important. And I think there were times growing

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up as a kid that I really felt like I didn't

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have. that connection. And then there were times

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where I found it in certain relationships or

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classes or hobbies or whatever, you know, and

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I noticed the reaction I had to that and feeling

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like really drawn to that and like it really

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mattered to me. And so, I mean, like this group

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of high school friends that were that came out,

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I'm still. Close friends. We just went to Palm

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Springs and did a trip together like last month,

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you know, so very. Yeah, I've always really cared

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about connection and meaningful relationships,

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even from a young age, which which makes it easier

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in doing this work as I'm working with families

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or couples or even individuals is I really, truly

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believe in the value of connection, genuine connection.

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And one of the one of the things I really like

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helping people with is how to find connection.

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Yeah. when uh growing up were you uh only child

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did you have some siblings where did you fall

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yeah so i i was the oldest of three kids um and

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and a little bit interesting so me and my siblings

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are all adopted so i had oh i was the oldest

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my daughter my younger sister was uh 10 months

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younger than me and then i have a younger brother

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who's four four years younger than me interesting

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so okay so y 'all were adopted yeah how did that

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how did that play out like did you know You were

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when you got adopted? Were you adopted as a baby?

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Like, what was that? Yeah, so I was adopted as

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a baby. It was all prearranged adoption even

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before I was born. My birth mom was 15, I think,

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when she had me. So she had already met with

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my parents, and that had all kind of been arranged

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and knew where I was going right off the bat.

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And that was actually the same way with my younger

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siblings as well. When did they tell you? Like,

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at what age was it like, hey, Mitchell? Yeah.

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You are adopted. Like, what did that look like?

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How'd that play out for you? Yeah, it's a great

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question. And I get that one a lot, too. And

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I don't remember the exact moment that they told

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me I was adopted, but I kind of remember just

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always knowing. And part of the reason is because

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my brother and sister are black. So there was

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just that aspect of like, oh, we don't look all

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the same. Right. And so just naturally that kind

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of came up. So I don't remember the exact moment,

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but I also. I always just kind of remember always

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knowing that we were adopted. So it was pretty

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early on that I knew. Interesting. My brother,

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he ended up adopting his stepdaughter. Okay,

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yeah. But she knew him. Like that was the only

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dad that she knew. I think she was six or seven

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months old. Yeah. Her mom and my brother got

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together and so she didn't know another dad,

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right? But I remember that kind of being a thing

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of like when's the right time to like actually

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sit and have that conversation Yeah, it's always

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it's always a challenge to try to find the right

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timing for that because that can I Think that

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can be really hard for some kids. Yeah. Yeah,

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it absolutely can. You know, in fact when I worked

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in residential treatment I did briefly run a

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group for adopted teens because we had a handful

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of kids that would come through there that were

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adopted i we uh my wife and i with our youngest

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we had her through a surrogacy okay so biologically

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my wife and i yeah but you know gestational carriers

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the one who gave birth right and we just decided

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like early on we were gonna always have that

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conversation right like yeah hey you you came

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from somebody else's belly right but you're you're

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you know you're your mom and i but you came from

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somebody else's belly and so like she she's six

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now But she's always kind of like had that terminology

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there that for us that seemed like the right

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thing to do because that can be, I mean, they

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don't understand the science behind it. They

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don't understand how that's working, right? There's

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no idea, right? Like, okay, well, this is what

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it is. But we just decided to have that conversation

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earlier. It's always made me think like, you

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know, how do those really play out? How do parents

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make good decisions about when to eventually

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have those conversations because of the impact

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that it can have on kids when they... you know,

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feel like it is. Have you ever had that feeling

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of like, you need to go get to know who your

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biological parents were or seek them out? Yeah,

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I think so. I mean, and one of the things that

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I'll talk and I've learned, especially through

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like a, through clinically working with folks

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that have been adopted is that there, there is

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just a natural curiosity and kind of biological

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draw to where you come from. And so it just exploring

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that. In fact, there's this book called The Primal

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Wound that talks about like adoption can be almost

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the first attachment wound that somebody experiences

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because you're no longer with your biological

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parent. Right. And so, yeah, in terms of like

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when I've had the conversation with people like

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when to actually say, hey, you know, you are

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adopted. And there's multiple schools of thought

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on this, I think, but generally I really like

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your approach of keeping things just kind of

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open and transparent, having the space to, to

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talk about it because as they, you said your

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daughter's six. Yeah. Yeah. She's six right now.

00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:36.639
But eventually she's going to be a teenager and

00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.940
that brain's going to start developing and she's

00:12:39.940 --> 00:12:42.019
going to all of a sudden develop this ability

00:12:42.019 --> 00:12:46.389
to abstractly think. And she's, She's going to

00:12:46.389 --> 00:12:48.529
start having questions, more questions about

00:12:48.529 --> 00:12:50.529
it that are developmentally, they're different

00:12:50.529 --> 00:12:52.830
from a six year old versus a 13 year old versus

00:12:52.830 --> 00:12:55.429
an 18 year old or something. Right. And so since

00:12:55.429 --> 00:12:58.070
you've laid that groundwork already of like,

00:12:58.169 --> 00:12:59.610
hey, we can talk about this. We can talk about

00:12:59.610 --> 00:13:01.230
this anytime you want. You know, this is something

00:13:01.230 --> 00:13:05.309
that we're totally open with you about. In my

00:13:05.309 --> 00:13:08.429
opinion. you're setting the groundwork. You've

00:13:08.429 --> 00:13:10.990
set the conversations up for success to continue.

00:13:11.190 --> 00:13:12.570
So I don't know if I answered your question,

00:13:12.789 --> 00:13:15.429
but. I mean, it sounds like if appropriate and

00:13:15.429 --> 00:13:16.629
when possible, maybe start the conversations

00:13:16.629 --> 00:13:19.889
early so that when the deeper questions come,

00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:23.149
they know it's okay to ask them. Yeah, yeah,

00:13:23.169 --> 00:13:25.429
exactly. And there may be, nothing's black and

00:13:25.429 --> 00:13:27.110
white. There may be times where that's not the

00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:29.409
best thing, right? So I just want to throw that

00:13:29.409 --> 00:13:32.350
out there too. But just in general, that's usually

00:13:32.350 --> 00:13:35.129
what I would advise. Yeah. Have you reconnected

00:13:35.129 --> 00:13:37.090
with your biological parents at all? Oh, yeah,

00:13:37.149 --> 00:13:40.970
yeah. So I have spoke with my biological mother.

00:13:41.710 --> 00:13:46.909
And I've actually met just by chance one of my

00:13:46.909 --> 00:13:51.409
half -siblings at In -N -Out one time. Just happened

00:13:51.409 --> 00:13:55.620
to meet. So anyways. Kind of quick recap. I was

00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:59.340
like 15. I had my half -sister reach out to me

00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:02.899
through MySpace. MySpace, that is going back

00:14:02.899 --> 00:14:05.950
a ways, isn't it? Holy moly. Yeah, I wish MySpace

00:14:05.950 --> 00:14:08.529
was still around. That was my favorite social

00:14:08.529 --> 00:14:11.409
media platform of them all. So I loved being

00:14:11.409 --> 00:14:14.129
able to pick my song and my whole profile and

00:14:14.129 --> 00:14:16.169
everything about it. But yeah, so she reached

00:14:16.169 --> 00:14:18.210
out to me through MySpace when I was like 15

00:14:18.210 --> 00:14:21.590
or something and didn't tell me right away who

00:14:21.590 --> 00:14:24.570
she was. We just kind of talked. But yeah, ended

00:14:24.570 --> 00:14:27.970
up just kind of spilling the beans that she was

00:14:27.970 --> 00:14:31.289
my biological half -sister. And then from there,

00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:33.820
ended up connecting with my... my, with my bio

00:14:33.820 --> 00:14:37.220
mom and, um, haven't met my bio mom, but she,

00:14:37.299 --> 00:14:41.240
uh, texts me every year on my birthday and we

00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:42.820
just kind of talk and check in about how things

00:14:42.820 --> 00:14:45.159
are going. And some of my other siblings have,

00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:47.379
have also started to reach out to me as well.

00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:49.460
And again, I think it's just that, that curiosity,

00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.299
right? You just want to know kind of like where

00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:54.559
you're, where you're from. Um, and I think you

00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.460
can see that too, like from a clinical perspective,

00:14:56.500 --> 00:14:58.600
again, with, with folks that are adopted, kids

00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.700
that are adopted, um, they. they might have this

00:15:01.700 --> 00:15:05.340
sense of loneliness or like struggling to belong

00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:09.639
or struggling with identity or to identify, yeah,

00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:13.779
like what is my place here? And oftentimes I

00:15:13.779 --> 00:15:16.360
will see that it's tied back all the way back

00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:18.320
to when they were a little, little kid or even

00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.500
a baby and they were adopted even before their

00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:24.919
consciousness was fully developed. So it's super

00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:28.669
powerful. It's, I mean. This is kind of changing

00:15:28.669 --> 00:15:30.409
gears a little bit, but it's also part of the

00:15:30.409 --> 00:15:32.450
reason when I'm working with family systems and

00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:34.889
trying to help parents who have gone through

00:15:34.889 --> 00:15:38.309
a divorce understand the value of both parents

00:15:38.309 --> 00:15:42.049
to this child, that it is inherently valuable,

00:15:42.230 --> 00:15:44.769
that most of the time it's not going to be the

00:15:44.769 --> 00:15:47.409
best thing for them not to have any tie or connection

00:15:47.409 --> 00:15:49.549
to both of their parents or one of their parents.

00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:52.230
Yeah, and you bring up an interesting point there,

00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:54.940
which is... Talking about family systems therapy.

00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:58.899
Yeah. And I think it's becoming, I think, more

00:15:58.899 --> 00:16:01.159
and more common, more and more popular. Yeah.

00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:02.580
I think there's still a lot of people out there

00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:06.480
outside of like our circles. Right. As a divorce

00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.120
attorney, as a therapist that don't know what

00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.039
that is. They're starting to hear that term.

00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:13.879
But like, what is family systems therapy? Yeah.

00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.279
So what would be kind of your basic breakdown

00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:19.259
of what family systems therapy is? Yeah. So family

00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:22.720
systems therapy. specifically within the court

00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.000
-ordered sense, because you could also do it,

00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:26.919
I guess, in a different sense of parents who

00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.120
are still married and working with a family system.

00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:34.480
I think it often overlaps with the term reunification

00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:38.419
therapy. Just historically, I think that's been

00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:40.799
kind of intertwined where it's, oh, there's parent

00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.700
-child contact problems or a parent is not seeing

00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:46.440
their kid for whatever reason, and so we're trying

00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.710
to reunify. Again, there's a lot of schools have

00:16:50.710 --> 00:16:53.149
thought about this. This is just opinion according

00:16:53.149 --> 00:16:57.090
to Mitch. But I think family systems is a little

00:16:57.090 --> 00:17:00.730
bit more all encompassing and overall more effective

00:17:00.730 --> 00:17:03.350
for the long term rather than just purely focusing

00:17:03.350 --> 00:17:05.930
on a reunification effort or reunification approach.

00:17:06.150 --> 00:17:09.529
And the reason is that reunification often focuses

00:17:09.529 --> 00:17:12.150
just on that one piece of the system of reconnecting

00:17:12.150 --> 00:17:16.069
parent and child where family systems will focus

00:17:16.069 --> 00:17:19.019
on. that, but it's also addressing the whole

00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:21.779
family system. And so what family systems therapy

00:17:21.779 --> 00:17:25.940
is, is addressing dysfunction within the family

00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:29.180
system, specifically with divorced couples. It

00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:31.720
often probably predated the divorce actually

00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.859
happening. So they were developing over time.

00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:38.390
Now it's resulted in divorce. And now maybe that

00:17:38.390 --> 00:17:40.950
dysfunction has just grown exponentially because

00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:43.769
of the divorce. And so what the family systems

00:17:43.769 --> 00:17:46.630
therapy process does is goes in and it looks

00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:50.089
at each piece of that system. So the mom, the

00:17:50.089 --> 00:17:52.490
dad, the kids, whoever is involved in that system.

00:17:53.130 --> 00:17:56.670
And we really look at where how do they contribute

00:17:56.670 --> 00:17:58.970
to the dysfunction and how is everyone affected

00:17:58.970 --> 00:18:02.750
by the dysfunction? And then in doing that, you

00:18:02.750 --> 00:18:05.390
can address, okay, the reunification potentially

00:18:05.390 --> 00:18:07.349
that maybe needs to happen within this family.

00:18:07.470 --> 00:18:10.349
But also how is the other parent then supporting

00:18:10.349 --> 00:18:12.710
that piece of it? How are they communicating

00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:15.069
with their co -parent? How are they communicating

00:18:15.069 --> 00:18:16.890
with their child that's reconnecting with the

00:18:16.890 --> 00:18:19.009
parent? And expressing to them, like as I just

00:18:19.009 --> 00:18:22.130
said, the importance. I mean to the core, like

00:18:22.130 --> 00:18:24.829
on a cellular level that we feel a connection

00:18:24.829 --> 00:18:28.029
to our biological parents of how important that

00:18:28.029 --> 00:18:33.920
is. The reality that if this if there's not a

00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.480
successful way to repair this relationship, that

00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.440
it's a predictor for relationship failure in

00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:40.980
the future, specifically within the romantic

00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:43.920
relationships and adult relationships. And so

00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:47.420
just, yeah, that role of because I think there

00:18:47.420 --> 00:18:49.819
will be a parent that will be like, this is their

00:18:49.819 --> 00:18:52.200
thing. I don't really need to be involved in

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:54.440
it. You know, it's their relationship. And I

00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:57.619
think that's really downplaying the impact in

00:18:57.619 --> 00:19:00.549
the role that they have. And downplaying the

00:19:00.549 --> 00:19:03.109
significance of their role within the family

00:19:03.109 --> 00:19:05.210
system. They're an important piece of it. Do

00:19:05.210 --> 00:19:09.029
you find that it's really hard for the, I'm going

00:19:09.029 --> 00:19:10.529
to call, I'm going to put some labels that maybe

00:19:10.529 --> 00:19:12.250
aren't right, but just so that we all kind of

00:19:12.250 --> 00:19:15.230
get on the same page. Sure. The bad actor parent,

00:19:15.430 --> 00:19:17.390
right? Maybe they did something wrong, right?

00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:18.509
And that's why there's having to be unification.

00:19:19.009 --> 00:19:22.809
And the good actor parent, is it sometimes really

00:19:22.809 --> 00:19:25.970
difficult for the good actor parent to engage

00:19:25.970 --> 00:19:28.759
in that family system therapy? There's this feeling

00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.440
that, well, I didn't do anything wrong. They're

00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.240
the one who did something wrong. But really what

00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.279
I'm hearing is for this family systems to work,

00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:36.619
they've got to be a pretty active participant.

00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:39.759
Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I'm, you know, I'll

00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.119
kind of give people a good, better, best scenario

00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.039
where it's like, hey, best case scenario. So

00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.859
everybody's participating. That gives you the

00:19:47.859 --> 00:19:51.400
best prognosis. We can still do some stuff that

00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:54.160
would be effective. But if certain people in

00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.640
the family are not participating. Well, I just

00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.599
want you to know that the ceiling kind of drops

00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.460
down a bit of where we can kind of go to with

00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:04.039
this. So I do think it is difficult a lot of

00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:07.200
times for the parent who does have the good relationship

00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.559
with the with their child, you know, because

00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:11.980
at that point they're not invested in the marriage,

00:20:12.019 --> 00:20:14.740
but they're still invested in their kids. Right.

00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.119
And so if that piece is all good, you know, I

00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.099
don't want to speak for for anybody, but, you

00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:24.069
know, I don't that relationship is. significantly

00:20:24.069 --> 00:20:26.170
less of a priority now that they're divorced.

00:20:26.349 --> 00:20:31.609
And so how do we, a big trick of the puzzle is

00:20:31.609 --> 00:20:33.970
how do we still get parents to prioritize and

00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:37.130
recognize the value in the other parent for the

00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:39.750
sake of their children, not necessarily for themselves.

00:20:40.190 --> 00:20:42.069
I mean, I think they benefit if they have a good

00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:44.930
co -parenting relationship too, less stress,

00:20:45.029 --> 00:20:48.410
more peace, but specifically just because it's

00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:51.109
what the kids will really need. because they

00:20:51.109 --> 00:20:53.130
need to know they can love both of their parents

00:20:53.130 --> 00:20:55.190
and they need to feel safe loving both of their

00:20:55.190 --> 00:20:58.670
parents and knowing, oh, mom is okay with me

00:20:58.670 --> 00:21:00.549
loving dad and dad is okay with me loving mom.

00:21:00.670 --> 00:21:02.809
And I feel that from them. But if I'm feeling

00:21:02.809 --> 00:21:05.789
like, hmm, yeah, you know, I can't be totally

00:21:05.789 --> 00:21:09.710
emotionally honest about positive things that

00:21:09.710 --> 00:21:12.369
are happening with parent A over here with parent

00:21:12.369 --> 00:21:16.529
B, well, it creates some of the dynamics I think

00:21:16.529 --> 00:21:18.970
we'll talk about in Turning Red, you know, as

00:21:18.970 --> 00:21:20.579
we talk about Turning Red. I mean that and that's

00:21:20.579 --> 00:21:22.079
exactly where my mind went like you could almost

00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.259
see my mind go there I was like, yes, because

00:21:24.259 --> 00:21:26.079
we're talking about suppression, right? Yeah,

00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.019
and when kids feel like they have to suppress

00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:31.420
those emotions and it's such a perfect time here

00:21:31.420 --> 00:21:33.920
So I'm gonna set the stage real quick. So turning

00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:38.700
red for anybody who hasn't seen it is This movie

00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:41.759
that's it's about this this gal who I don't know

00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:43.640
if she's a tween or a teenager, but she's 13

00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:47.950
She's 13. Okay, so she's 13 years old And she's

00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:49.829
got some pretty strict parents, especially her

00:21:49.829 --> 00:21:52.589
mom, right? And so his main character is Mei

00:21:52.589 --> 00:21:54.829
Lin. I think she goes, they call her Mei Mei,

00:21:54.910 --> 00:21:56.150
right? That's what mom calls her, but I think

00:21:56.150 --> 00:21:59.470
Mei Lin is her name. And she's got this really

00:21:59.470 --> 00:22:01.930
strict mom who's got this kind of exacting standard

00:22:01.930 --> 00:22:03.950
that she's expecting Mei Lin to always follow.

00:22:04.269 --> 00:22:06.549
And then at the beginning of the movie, you can

00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:08.930
see that manifest through Mei Lin's relationship

00:22:08.930 --> 00:22:10.990
with her friends. Loves her friends, has a great

00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:12.569
time with her friends, but she is pulling herself

00:22:12.569 --> 00:22:14.609
away because she's got to go do this, this, and

00:22:14.609 --> 00:22:17.299
this, and her mom... demands that she do you

00:22:17.299 --> 00:22:19.180
gotta go play her instrument their mom demands

00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:21.180
to do she's gonna do extra homework right their

00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:23.579
mom demands that she do she's got to go clean

00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.259
the temple that they have because her mom demands

00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:28.839
that she does it and so you see this relationship

00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:31.640
from the beginning that's just very strict nayland's

00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.680
always trying to please her mom trying to do

00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.720
exactly what her mom wants her mom has this very

00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.460
exacting standard that she has and then what

00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:42.710
you start to see is that that there's this suppression

00:22:42.710 --> 00:22:45.150
of her emotions that starts to come become manifest

00:22:45.150 --> 00:22:47.329
when she has these big emotions which is she

00:22:47.329 --> 00:22:50.789
turns into a red panda yes which is which is

00:22:50.789 --> 00:22:56.630
such a fun way to show how these emotions get

00:22:56.630 --> 00:22:58.809
bottled up and then come out right it comes out

00:22:58.809 --> 00:23:01.890
in this giant red panda right and so she's got

00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:03.650
to go through the experience of having these

00:23:03.650 --> 00:23:05.940
big emotions turning into a red panda finding

00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:07.940
a way to calm herself down and then not be a

00:23:07.940 --> 00:23:10.099
red panda. And then how that relationship plays

00:23:10.099 --> 00:23:12.559
out with her mom, who, as it turns out, this

00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.740
is a family trait. The family, the women in this

00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:17.480
family, that's what happens with them. When they

00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:19.799
reach a certain age, they become red pandas.

00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.819
They have to learn how to control it. And I guess

00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:24.660
you could say suppress it, right? Yeah. Yep.

00:23:25.420 --> 00:23:27.279
Kind of what happens, right? Mom suppresses it

00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:29.359
for a really long time. And then you start to

00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:31.529
see their relationship. play out and how they

00:23:31.529 --> 00:23:34.769
deal with those emotions of it coming out or

00:23:34.769 --> 00:23:36.690
does it need to be suppressed or just dealt with

00:23:36.690 --> 00:23:38.829
yeah that's kind of the overall stage of this

00:23:38.829 --> 00:23:41.609
of this movie right yeah yeah absolutely so So

00:23:41.609 --> 00:23:43.369
kind of talk us through when you were thinking

00:23:43.369 --> 00:23:45.970
about, obviously, your particular work and the

00:23:45.970 --> 00:23:47.130
things that you're passionate about and you deal

00:23:47.130 --> 00:23:49.769
with, especially when it comes to helping parents

00:23:49.769 --> 00:23:52.630
with their kids. Why Turning Red? Why was that

00:23:52.630 --> 00:23:54.369
the movie that you were like, this is the one

00:23:54.369 --> 00:23:56.250
we should talk about? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think

00:23:56.250 --> 00:23:59.210
just exactly that, because I see it every day,

00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:02.710
it seems like, you know, is these different family

00:24:02.710 --> 00:24:07.569
dynamics and certainly seeing. Kids or even adults

00:24:07.569 --> 00:24:11.009
suppressing their emotions, family systems dysfunction,

00:24:11.329 --> 00:24:15.430
and seeing that as well, you know, in turning

00:24:15.430 --> 00:24:18.670
red. Parenting as well. You know, how do you

00:24:18.670 --> 00:24:21.650
parent a teenager? Like I mentioned before, you

00:24:21.650 --> 00:24:23.710
know, as when we were talking about your daughter,

00:24:23.750 --> 00:24:26.670
like a six -year -old compared to a 13 -year

00:24:26.670 --> 00:24:31.529
-old. Well, when a kid hits 13, the ability to

00:24:31.529 --> 00:24:34.940
think. abstractly about things to critically

00:24:34.940 --> 00:24:37.200
think like that, that muscle starts to begin

00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.559
to develop. And so it's like this whole new thing

00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.579
and why you start to see that strive for independence,

00:24:42.700 --> 00:24:46.059
more of the rebelliousness or the argumentativeness

00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:48.539
start to come up because now they're like, now

00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:50.880
they can do that. Whereas before the brain literally

00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:56.059
wasn't able to do that. And so seeing that. It's

00:24:56.059 --> 00:24:58.460
what I work with every day. And so Turning Red

00:24:58.460 --> 00:25:01.740
popped up and I've actually recommended this

00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:05.000
movie to families I've been working with as kind

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.720
of like a clinical example or case study to look

00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:10.440
at. Now, I want to acknowledge this, too. While

00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.900
we're talking about this, like from a clinical

00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:14.579
framework, this movie, I also do want to acknowledge

00:25:14.579 --> 00:25:17.700
the cultural aspect of this and acknowledging

00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:20.599
that I'm not a part of the Chinese culture. And

00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:23.339
so there's a lot there that I don't know about.

00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:25.960
And do you just want to acknowledge that? That

00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:27.960
piece of it as well. I mean, there's unique things

00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:30.960
in different cultures that come into play in

00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.920
the way that parents are seen or children interact

00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:38.119
and cultural pressures that come based off of

00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.279
different cultures that are there. Let me read

00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:44.180
a quote for you. I think this kind of sets the

00:25:44.180 --> 00:25:45.579
stage really well for some of the things that

00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:48.059
May Lynn is feeling right at the beginning. I'm

00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:50.000
going to get your take on it. She says right

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.259
at the very beginning, the number one rule in

00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:55.309
my family, honor your parents. They're the supreme

00:25:55.309 --> 00:25:58.890
beings who gave you life, who sweated and sacrificed

00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:01.809
so much to put a roof over your head, food on

00:26:01.809 --> 00:26:05.049
your plate, an epic amount of food. The least

00:26:05.049 --> 00:26:07.730
you can do in return is every single thing they

00:26:07.730 --> 00:26:11.099
ask. Which is this wild, right? Which is wild.

00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:13.400
So, you know, when, when we're looking at this,

00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:16.519
of this, this girl who's experiencing this transition

00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:18.619
from her brain, not being able to understand

00:26:18.619 --> 00:26:20.240
that something different to now she's 13 and

00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.180
starting to like, what, what is that experience

00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:26.140
like for kids as we're trying to understand what

00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:29.339
our kids are going through? Yeah. Yeah. That's,

00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:31.640
I love that quote too. What it's just kind of

00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:33.160
funny, right? It's a funny way to kind of start

00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:35.480
off the movie. And I think everybody kind of

00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:37.740
chuckles at it. Parents and kids maybe chuckle

00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:42.220
at it. And and but what I my take on it, again,

00:26:42.299 --> 00:26:43.839
not that this is right or wrong, but my take

00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:48.779
is she she has grown up within this family system

00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:53.099
and developed these family norms, which is my

00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:55.019
parents provide. This is what their role is.

00:26:55.059 --> 00:26:58.200
They provide for me. food and clothes and shelter

00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.140
and all the things that i need and what my job

00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:04.119
is is to make sure i honor them and i follow

00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:06.180
through with my responsibilities and my duty

00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:11.000
to them so in a sense um you know it's this kind

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:14.259
of core foundational beliefs that we're seeing

00:27:14.259 --> 00:27:18.839
may uh share for the first time which is this

00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:20.859
is how i view the world and how i interpret the

00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:23.839
world which is And I've known this my whole life.

00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:25.759
This is what I do. I do everything that my parents

00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.160
ask. And that's what I do. And then this is what

00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.700
they do. But as we see throughout the movie,

00:27:30.859 --> 00:27:34.859
she's turned 13. You know, I think it's reasonable

00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:38.160
to surmise that, yeah, she's getting into adolescence

00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.079
where she's wanting that independence. And she's

00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.059
thinking differently about all of this stuff

00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:44.940
that she was originally brought up with. And

00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.359
so now she's wanting to kind of push back against

00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.220
that and challenge it, which is appropriate for

00:27:49.220 --> 00:27:51.500
a teenager to do. Yeah. Which I think sometimes

00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:53.960
as parents, we, we forget that. Yeah. Like, Oh,

00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:55.799
they're just being so difficult. Oh, they're

00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:57.779
just so hard. Like, right. Actually, I think

00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:01.079
their brains are developing normal. Like, yeah,

00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:02.480
this is kind of the way it's supposed to work.

00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:04.759
Doesn't mean it's fun. Yeah. Right. Doesn't mean

00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:06.819
it's easy to do and navigate with your kids,

00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.819
but actually it's pretty normal for kids to kind

00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:10.559
of start acting out and finding their own way.

00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:13.140
Yeah. Actually, I'd be more, more concerned if

00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:16.829
that, uh, That really obedient kind of phase

00:28:16.829 --> 00:28:18.869
that you see a little bit more with children,

00:28:19.089 --> 00:28:21.670
younger children, if that was also happening

00:28:21.670 --> 00:28:25.049
into adolescence. To me, that would say potentially

00:28:25.049 --> 00:28:28.250
is there a developmental delay here? And I don't

00:28:28.250 --> 00:28:31.130
want to see that in my 20 -year -old where they're

00:28:31.130 --> 00:28:34.190
now becoming rebellious, pushing back against

00:28:34.190 --> 00:28:37.049
authority figures. And now there's potential

00:28:37.049 --> 00:28:39.009
legal consequences for that because they're an

00:28:39.009 --> 00:28:42.019
adult. For sure. For sure. Okay, so let me take

00:28:42.019 --> 00:28:43.660
you to another quote that's not in the movie.

00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:47.079
Yeah. But I really like this one. Have you heard

00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:48.599
of Daniel Pink? Do you know who he is? I'm not

00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:50.660
sure. He's an author, public speaker, and he

00:28:50.660 --> 00:28:53.220
does a lot about motivations at work specifically.

00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:57.200
Okay. But I think this quote really is kind of

00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:00.200
core to what this development is being. What

00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.259
he said is, human beings have an innate inner

00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:08.160
drive to be autonomous, self -determined, and

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.190
connected to one another. And when that drive

00:29:10.190 --> 00:29:13.089
is liberated, people achieve more and live richer

00:29:13.089 --> 00:29:16.890
lives. So he talks a lot about this idea of autonomy

00:29:16.890 --> 00:29:19.250
at work, that people need autonomy at work not

00:29:19.250 --> 00:29:21.089
to be micromanaged. But I think what we're seeing

00:29:21.089 --> 00:29:24.970
here with kids this age and May specifically

00:29:24.970 --> 00:29:27.349
here is that starting to realize that there can

00:29:27.349 --> 00:29:30.309
be some autonomy. And like we just said, it's

00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:31.950
pretty natural for that to start coming out.

00:29:32.049 --> 00:29:34.210
So what's your take on that both for kids and

00:29:34.210 --> 00:29:36.789
also maybe for us as adults on this idea of like,

00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:39.460
exactness and following this versus a bit more

00:29:39.460 --> 00:29:43.000
of autonomy. Yeah. Yeah. There's, you know, there's

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:47.380
that exact use. You saying exactness makes me

00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:50.359
think of this other thing too, of like kind of

00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:52.140
tying it into discipline. Like there is also,

00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:55.160
there's room for autonomy and there's room for

00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:58.640
exactness. Um, you know, a, an exactness, whether

00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:01.640
it's, uh, following through with my routine or

00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:03.980
my schedule or whatever. Like we also know that

00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:08.240
is helpful for. Certainly for kids and adolescents

00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.279
and adults, adults are oftentimes helping provide

00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:14.900
that structure and that routine for their kids.

00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:16.940
And I think it's within that structure and routine

00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:19.740
where as a parent, you could look at where can

00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:22.740
I let out a little bit more rope as my kid gets

00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:25.140
a little bit older and they've started to develop

00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:28.940
more trust as well and let them fluctuate and

00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:32.079
experience some autonomy within that structure

00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.299
that you provide for them while they're still.

00:30:35.019 --> 00:30:37.519
uh, still a minor, but I, I, I totally think

00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:39.380
it's true. I mean, I think in my own personal

00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:42.640
experiences, um, I don't enjoy being micromanaged,

00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:46.380
you know, I enjoy being able to, to know kind

00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:49.160
of what the overall goal is or what we're working

00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:51.900
on. And then I can kind of be autonomous and

00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:53.940
going through my processes and, and utilizing

00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:57.319
my strengths to be able to do that because what

00:30:57.319 --> 00:30:59.079
my strengths are may not be your strengths. And

00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.920
so if I do it exactly the way you do it, it may

00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:05.220
not actually get the same result because that

00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:08.180
may not be my strong suit. And so being open

00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:10.140
to, hey, everybody has different strengths. There's

00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:12.359
more than one right way to do something. Let's

00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:14.900
allow some autonomy, provide the scaffolding

00:31:14.900 --> 00:31:18.180
or the structure when we need it to. But yeah,

00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:20.079
the autonomy is certainly important. I think

00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.539
about like being an adolescent. Oh man, I probably

00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:25.460
drove my parents crazy, like wanting to push.

00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:27.380
I actually had a manager when I was a teenager.

00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:29.660
He eventually started calling me the lawyer.

00:31:30.089 --> 00:31:31.930
Because I would just argue about everything.

00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:35.369
And I wanted to do things how I wanted to do

00:31:35.369 --> 00:31:37.710
them. I wanted that autonomy really bad. Yeah.

00:31:38.910 --> 00:31:41.650
Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick

00:31:41.650 --> 00:31:44.269
favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far,

00:31:44.470 --> 00:31:47.529
will you like, rate, and subscribe to our show?

00:31:47.950 --> 00:31:51.230
It helps us reach more people like you. We can

00:31:51.230 --> 00:31:53.869
design and create and build the most wonderful

00:31:53.869 --> 00:31:56.990
place in the world, but it takes people to make

00:31:56.990 --> 00:32:01.430
the dream a reality. I do think it's interesting.

00:32:01.589 --> 00:32:03.230
I love the point that you're making there, which

00:32:03.230 --> 00:32:05.769
is it's really both. We need to have both. We

00:32:05.769 --> 00:32:07.710
need to have this. We need to have autonomy,

00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:10.089
but we also need to have some exactness and some

00:32:10.089 --> 00:32:12.650
discipline and some structure. And finding that

00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:15.450
balance is part of the challenge of life. Totally.

00:32:15.730 --> 00:32:17.250
Your kids are learning it, and they're going

00:32:17.250 --> 00:32:18.849
to at times get it wrong. They're going to push

00:32:18.849 --> 00:32:20.730
too hard. Sometimes as parents, we're going to

00:32:20.730 --> 00:32:22.349
get it. Not sometimes. A lot of times we're going

00:32:22.349 --> 00:32:24.150
to get it wrong. We're going to try to be too

00:32:24.150 --> 00:32:27.109
exacting, or we're going to be too loosey -goosey

00:32:27.109 --> 00:32:29.579
on stuff. and allow our kids to take advantage.

00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.759
But I think for me, communication and open communication,

00:32:33.859 --> 00:32:36.079
that's really important, especially for employees,

00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:39.039
people I work with. Because the last thing I

00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:41.019
want to do is be micromanaging. I don't want

00:32:41.019 --> 00:32:44.519
to do that at all. I do have standards that I

00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:46.660
want to be upheld. And so when I have employees

00:32:46.660 --> 00:32:49.059
that are willing to have that open communication

00:32:49.059 --> 00:32:52.150
with me and say, hey. I really want to be able

00:32:52.150 --> 00:32:53.369
to do my own thing here. I want to be able to

00:32:53.369 --> 00:32:55.250
have a little more autonomy here, a little more

00:32:55.250 --> 00:32:58.069
discretion here. It's really helpful for me.

00:32:58.170 --> 00:32:59.589
And then if I can have that same conversation

00:32:59.589 --> 00:33:02.349
back, like, hey, what I want to do here is provide

00:33:02.349 --> 00:33:05.430
that for you here within these boundaries, within

00:33:05.430 --> 00:33:07.589
this standard that we need to have held here

00:33:07.589 --> 00:33:09.490
because we need to meet a certain standard, then

00:33:09.490 --> 00:33:11.410
you get to go explore around and see what that

00:33:11.410 --> 00:33:13.410
looks like to get there. Totally. And I don't

00:33:13.410 --> 00:33:15.190
even want to be in the position of micromanaging.

00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:17.970
people either. Like it's not, that's more work

00:33:17.970 --> 00:33:20.789
for me and it's more stressful. You know, I was

00:33:20.789 --> 00:33:22.809
just interviewing somebody recently and, um,

00:33:22.910 --> 00:33:24.349
you know, I just said, Hey, there's, you know,

00:33:24.349 --> 00:33:27.430
I will provide scaffolding and structure and

00:33:27.430 --> 00:33:29.710
the overall goals and things that need to get

00:33:29.710 --> 00:33:32.670
done, but I'm going to let you really decide

00:33:32.670 --> 00:33:35.210
whatever your process is going to be for that,

00:33:35.250 --> 00:33:37.750
you know? And, um, and that's what I would prefer.

00:33:37.890 --> 00:33:40.690
And yeah, I can step in as, as needed, or of

00:33:40.690 --> 00:33:43.210
course there to help answer any questions or.

00:33:43.789 --> 00:33:45.589
provide assistance along the way, but I don't

00:33:45.589 --> 00:33:46.869
want to be the person that's saying, no, you

00:33:46.869 --> 00:33:49.390
need to do this, this, and this, this way. Yeah.

00:33:49.529 --> 00:33:51.269
Yeah. Totally fair. So one of the things too,

00:33:51.309 --> 00:33:54.450
I think we see in turning red that, uh, that

00:33:54.450 --> 00:33:56.670
I wanted to get your take on too, is this idea

00:33:56.670 --> 00:34:02.009
of enmeshment versus empathy. Yeah. Because I

00:34:02.009 --> 00:34:04.690
mean, I think, I think we know that empathy can

00:34:04.690 --> 00:34:07.289
be a great tool. Yeah. Um, you know, being empathetic

00:34:07.289 --> 00:34:09.730
to somebody's situation, we can assume more positive

00:34:09.730 --> 00:34:11.469
intent. We could try to understand them more.

00:34:12.190 --> 00:34:14.769
But there's this line that we could cross over

00:34:14.769 --> 00:34:18.389
into being enmeshed with them, not knowing where

00:34:18.389 --> 00:34:20.650
we end and where they start. And I think we see

00:34:20.650 --> 00:34:24.969
that with Mei Mei and her mom, right? That they

00:34:24.969 --> 00:34:28.510
really had become enmeshed. I don't think Mei

00:34:28.510 --> 00:34:30.789
Lan understood where she ended and where her

00:34:30.789 --> 00:34:33.010
mom started. In fact, I think I actually have

00:34:33.010 --> 00:34:38.260
a quote from that. Where is it? Oh, yeah. So

00:34:38.260 --> 00:34:40.860
she says, I do make my own moves. It's just that

00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:43.440
some of my moves are also hers. Yes. You're like,

00:34:43.460 --> 00:34:46.880
well, OK. Another one that's so funny. And so

00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:49.559
how do we what is the difference for you between

00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:51.940
this idea of empathy versus enmeshment and how

00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:55.159
do we navigate that? Yeah. So I guess starting

00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:58.639
with enmeshment, enmeshment. uh typically is

00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:02.199
it's a dysfunctional family pattern where and

00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:03.880
you said it beautifully it's one of the best

00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.440
ways i've heard to describe it which is where

00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:08.840
does one person end and the other person begin

00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:12.639
and if it's hard to to the clinical term is differentiate

00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.440
that and differentiate the you know those two

00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.500
individuals um well then we start to look is

00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:23.239
is there enmeshment here and so yeah the the

00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:27.949
uh wanting to take credit for kids successes

00:35:27.949 --> 00:35:30.989
as as if they're your own you know i think the

00:35:30.989 --> 00:35:35.309
mom makes one comment today of like scholar today

00:35:35.309 --> 00:35:38.190
un secretary general tomorrow you know like she

00:35:38.190 --> 00:35:40.929
already has it planned out of like what her successes

00:35:40.929 --> 00:35:44.449
are gonna be and um and so you can kind of see

00:35:44.449 --> 00:35:46.409
like that to me would indicate like oh she's

00:35:46.409 --> 00:35:49.710
she is taking on may lynn's stuff as her own

00:35:49.710 --> 00:35:52.269
and so that that would to me would say okay there's

00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.059
there's some potential enmeshment there. And

00:35:55.059 --> 00:35:57.539
you see it throughout the movie as well, like

00:35:57.539 --> 00:36:00.280
enmeshment there, characterized typically by

00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:03.179
a total lack of boundaries or very blurred boundaries.

00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:06.920
So even simple things that I've noticed that

00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.340
I noticed as I was watching the movie again was

00:36:08.340 --> 00:36:14.119
there's this scene where may who's 13 also going

00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:17.119
through puberty developing crushes and you know

00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.059
romantic attraction and she starts kind of doodling

00:36:20.059 --> 00:36:22.719
in her notebook of the the little the cute guy

00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:26.500
at the the daisy mart and uh she like her mom

00:36:26.500 --> 00:36:28.519
her mom's here's her mom coming and so she drops

00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.199
the notebook or whatever you know um but the

00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:33.800
mom coming in without knocking you know just

00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:36.719
assuming oh yeah this is my room too essentially

00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.780
like i can just come in here whenever i want

00:36:39.460 --> 00:36:43.260
And so there's not really a boundary there. And

00:36:43.260 --> 00:36:45.099
then immediately taking the notebook when she

00:36:45.099 --> 00:36:47.559
sees it and looking through a private notebook

00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:51.059
of her daughters as well. So you see later in

00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:52.980
the movie, too, she goes under the bed and is

00:36:52.980 --> 00:36:55.539
looking around and finds all this stuff about

00:36:55.539 --> 00:36:58.539
the panda, you know, later. And so those were

00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:02.739
examples to me of a potentially enmeshed relationship

00:37:02.739 --> 00:37:05.880
where there's really not any clear boundaries

00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:10.940
there. What? could a parent do in those situations

00:37:10.940 --> 00:37:15.099
so that there is less enmeshment with that how

00:37:15.099 --> 00:37:17.039
should a parent approach some of those situations

00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:20.880
yeah you know i mean super super simply the opposite

00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.820
would be knock on the door um ask you know or

00:37:25.820 --> 00:37:27.960
have a conversation at least before looking through

00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.960
certain things because i mean as a parent too

00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:32.420
it's still your job to protect your kids and

00:37:32.420 --> 00:37:33.619
you definitely want to do it you don't want to

00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:36.429
be an absent parent and totally let them have

00:37:36.429 --> 00:37:40.849
free reign either so the um there's this book

00:37:40.849 --> 00:37:44.250
and i'm blanking on the name but it's uh oh the

00:37:44.250 --> 00:37:46.630
author is dr lisa demore but she talks i love

00:37:46.630 --> 00:37:49.360
the way that she talks about parenting teenage

00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.500
girls specifically and that when they do get

00:37:51.500 --> 00:37:53.500
to become an adolescent it's like things that

00:37:53.500 --> 00:37:56.219
they used to like to do or things that they still

00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:58.320
like to do that they would do with their door

00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.599
open now they like to just have it close now

00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.539
they like just having that sense of privacy you

00:38:02.539 --> 00:38:04.659
know and so being able to just recognize that

00:38:04.659 --> 00:38:07.039
that's normal that's normal in your your kid

00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.000
to have that autonomy that we were talking about

00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.139
and want that independence and have some of the

00:38:11.139 --> 00:38:14.480
stuff that's just theirs um having some conversations

00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:19.210
about that of of you know, negotiating, hey,

00:38:19.289 --> 00:38:20.989
I'm going to knock on the door before I come

00:38:20.989 --> 00:38:23.429
in. If I don't hear you respond or anything,

00:38:23.489 --> 00:38:24.849
I'm going to come in because I want to make sure

00:38:24.849 --> 00:38:27.309
you're safe and everything's okay. You know,

00:38:27.309 --> 00:38:29.210
but you can always contract for that ahead of

00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:31.650
time and just have open and transparent communication

00:38:31.650 --> 00:38:35.289
about that. I think that's almost everything

00:38:35.289 --> 00:38:39.469
can go better if there's transparency and there's

00:38:39.469 --> 00:38:41.250
a willingness to just have some conversation

00:38:41.250 --> 00:38:44.019
about it. and being willing to invite your teenager

00:38:44.019 --> 00:38:46.059
to the table to have a conversation because they're

00:38:46.059 --> 00:38:48.059
not a little kid anymore. They're not a young

00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:50.480
child where you really have to do everything

00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:53.219
for them. And just knowing where they're at in

00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:56.239
their phase of development, they want that autonomy.

00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:57.980
They want to be able to share their opinions

00:38:57.980 --> 00:39:00.320
and their thoughts too. How do we as parents

00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:04.159
create the environment to do that? Now, I could

00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:06.260
definitely be wrong on this, and I'm going to

00:39:06.260 --> 00:39:09.030
certainly accept that I might be. One of the

00:39:09.030 --> 00:39:10.869
things that I've been thinking about a lot lately

00:39:10.869 --> 00:39:14.230
is I think it really ties into this idea of autonomy,

00:39:14.349 --> 00:39:18.289
which is one of the things that my generation

00:39:18.289 --> 00:39:20.789
is perhaps complaining a lot about is that the

00:39:20.789 --> 00:39:24.710
younger generation, not millennials, but I guess,

00:39:24.710 --> 00:39:27.570
is it Xennials that's after that? Whatever. Yeah,

00:39:27.630 --> 00:39:32.789
Gen Z. Yeah, Gen Zs, that they won't take responsibility

00:39:32.789 --> 00:39:35.230
or that they don't take things seriously enough

00:39:35.230 --> 00:39:40.159
or that they're too entitled. At the same time,

00:39:40.179 --> 00:39:44.019
I think my generation and maybe I'm kind of Gen

00:39:44.019 --> 00:39:46.780
X, maybe I'm a little millennial, but Gen X more

00:39:46.780 --> 00:39:49.099
of like, you know, the 40s and 50s now that have

00:39:49.099 --> 00:39:53.019
raised their kids have really like continued

00:39:53.019 --> 00:39:57.360
to be a crux to their kids over time and continue

00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:01.119
to do everything for them or always bail them

00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:03.539
out or always want to do everything for them.

00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.300
And taking away, and it's with their consent

00:40:06.300 --> 00:40:08.019
probably, but like take away their autonomy.

00:40:08.699 --> 00:40:11.639
And yet we complain that kids aren't more autonomous

00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:14.380
and take responsibility. We're kind of creating

00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:17.639
that to some degree by not saying like, okay,

00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:21.239
go do your thing. Have your autonomy, especially

00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.619
as they get in their late teens and then they're

00:40:23.619 --> 00:40:26.059
in their early 20s. And yet we still, my generation

00:40:26.059 --> 00:40:27.860
still, I'm going to bring you on back. Let me

00:40:27.860 --> 00:40:30.519
do everything for you. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And

00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:32.199
I don't know that I have all the answers, but

00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:34.260
it's certainly, I would agree. I've seen that

00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:36.070
and I've had. multiple conversations with other

00:40:36.070 --> 00:40:38.349
people about that same thing of the differences

00:40:38.349 --> 00:40:41.170
in parenting, just generationally, how we're

00:40:41.170 --> 00:40:44.190
seeing that, you know, positively I've seen one

00:40:44.190 --> 00:40:46.590
thing, this study was on millennials specifically,

00:40:46.650 --> 00:40:49.530
but this, you know, this particular study showed

00:40:49.530 --> 00:40:53.389
that millennial fathers are much more involved

00:40:53.389 --> 00:40:56.210
in their kid's life than prior generations. You

00:40:56.210 --> 00:40:59.010
know, I certainly feel that I'm part of the millennial

00:40:59.010 --> 00:41:01.090
generation and that's one of the highlights.

00:41:01.869 --> 00:41:04.329
of my life is being able to be a part of my kids'

00:41:04.429 --> 00:41:07.690
lives, you know, and I admittedly, I work with

00:41:07.690 --> 00:41:09.449
families and I teach people how to recognize

00:41:09.449 --> 00:41:12.650
enmeshment or, you know, when we're not allowing

00:41:12.650 --> 00:41:14.309
autonomy. And I'm sure that's something that

00:41:14.309 --> 00:41:16.389
I'm going to continue to struggle with outside

00:41:16.389 --> 00:41:19.190
of the therapy arena when it's my own personal

00:41:19.190 --> 00:41:21.590
kids and I'm a parent, I'm not their therapist.

00:41:21.949 --> 00:41:25.769
It is a struggle. One interesting note I had

00:41:25.769 --> 00:41:29.739
on that too is I think, again, My school of thought,

00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:32.760
just according to Mitch, but the role that technology

00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:36.159
has also played in that as well. You know, I

00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:38.940
used to run a group for teenagers on healthy

00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:42.760
technology usage. And it doesn't mean no technology

00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.059
at all. It just means how do we use this actually

00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:47.519
as a tool and so that it doesn't become something

00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:49.699
that we're overusing or addicted to potentially.

00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:53.260
And one of the things that we talk about is younger

00:41:53.260 --> 00:41:55.719
generations. What was the ticket to freedom?

00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:59.360
Getting your license. Oh, it's huge. I can go

00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:01.219
drive. I can just go. I remember getting my license

00:42:01.219 --> 00:42:03.320
being like, I don't have anywhere that I have

00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:06.480
to go, but I want any reason to go. I mean, especially

00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:08.940
early on. My mom needed something from the grocery

00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:11.219
store. Yeah, I'll go do it. I just want to drive

00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:14.480
my car. I just want to go out. But you're seeing

00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.480
in younger generations, Gen Z specifically and

00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:22.059
younger, there's less interest in getting a driver's

00:42:22.059 --> 00:42:24.619
license. People are waiting. until they're 18

00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:27.119
or sometimes even later to get a driver's license.

00:42:27.539 --> 00:42:30.079
There's less interest in dating and romantic

00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.619
relationships in person. There's still, there's

00:42:32.619 --> 00:42:36.119
a lot more online dating. And so this, this stuff

00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:38.219
about being able to go out and experience the

00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:40.260
world and get out of the house, you know, you

00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:42.659
dream about these dreams that prior generations

00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:47.340
would have to get out of the cave, so to speak,

00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.539
is one of the terminologies I would use. But

00:42:49.539 --> 00:42:54.519
with technology, there's access to everything

00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:58.079
everywhere all of the time. To quote Bo Burnham's

00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.679
special, he has a song, anything and everything

00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:02.699
all of the time. You can get anything and everything

00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:04.800
you want all of the time through the internet

00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:06.780
and through technology. And so I don't even have

00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:09.300
to go out. I can just access it right here on

00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:11.579
my computer. And that's what we're seeing a lot

00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:14.639
too with these younger generations of their home

00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.699
more. And then I think it almost creates maybe

00:43:16.699 --> 00:43:19.500
this cyclical pattern of parents wanting to be

00:43:19.500 --> 00:43:22.539
more involved to either help. push them along

00:43:22.539 --> 00:43:25.659
or guide them even more with, with that. But,

00:43:25.659 --> 00:43:27.539
but we're definitely also seeing developmental

00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:31.599
delays with, with younger generations as well.

00:43:31.659 --> 00:43:35.420
Things that people were doing by 25 career family

00:43:35.420 --> 00:43:37.860
moving out, you know, that's getting pushed back

00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:40.420
further and further. Yeah, for sure. So when

00:43:40.420 --> 00:43:45.400
we, when we take a look at what Malin is experiencing

00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:48.980
and she initially starts becoming the red Panda.

00:43:49.059 --> 00:43:53.829
Yeah. So talk to me about what that really represents

00:43:53.829 --> 00:43:56.809
and, you know, what the implications are for

00:43:56.809 --> 00:44:00.170
our kids as they're going into their teenage

00:44:00.170 --> 00:44:02.230
years and what they're experiencing so that we

00:44:02.230 --> 00:44:04.269
can try to understand them better. Yeah, well,

00:44:04.349 --> 00:44:08.449
you know, I think the interpretation that I had

00:44:08.449 --> 00:44:12.050
from that was I think there's this piece of it

00:44:12.050 --> 00:44:16.070
of she is becoming an adolescent now and she's

00:44:16.070 --> 00:44:19.230
having these different things. pop up for her

00:44:19.230 --> 00:44:22.070
thoughts, feelings, experiences that are in direct

00:44:22.070 --> 00:44:25.030
contradiction of what she's been taught by her

00:44:25.030 --> 00:44:27.010
parents and especially her mom, right? Growing

00:44:27.010 --> 00:44:30.730
up. And it was okay up until now. And now her

00:44:30.730 --> 00:44:32.889
body's changing. I think the panda's partially

00:44:32.889 --> 00:44:34.849
a metaphor for puberty and just going through

00:44:34.849 --> 00:44:38.110
puberty and all of those changes as well. But

00:44:38.110 --> 00:44:40.969
I think it also represents some of those suppressed

00:44:40.969 --> 00:44:44.989
thoughts and feelings that Malin is interpreting

00:44:44.989 --> 00:44:47.590
as like, oh, and she's learning based off of

00:44:47.590 --> 00:44:49.920
the little, relationship feedback that she's

00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.539
getting from her mom. I can't share this thought

00:44:52.539 --> 00:44:54.960
or feeling because it's going to make my mom

00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:57.840
sad or it's going to hurt her somehow. And so

00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:01.039
she ends up just suppressing it, maybe writing

00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:03.039
things in her private journals, right? Having

00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:06.539
a different outlet for it. But eventually, and

00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:09.179
I think if I'm remembering the movie right, it's

00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:12.760
after the mom finds the journal. takes her down

00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:15.659
to the daisy mart i just think about how humiliating

00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:19.659
this would be as a teenager um and goes and is

00:45:19.659 --> 00:45:22.300
you know interrogating the the kid at the counter

00:45:22.300 --> 00:45:26.159
and then throws down the drawings that that may

00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:29.559
did in her her little journal and just yeah that

00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.139
would shatter my world as an adolescent right

00:45:32.139 --> 00:45:34.820
i mean as an adolescent your world is so social

00:45:34.820 --> 00:45:37.739
it's so built around your social life i think

00:45:37.739 --> 00:45:40.739
about like a junior high high school that is

00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:43.079
your life. Like there's not really much outside

00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.360
of family and then high school and what's going

00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.980
on there. You know, you almost can't even fathom

00:45:47.980 --> 00:45:50.360
what outside of high school and past high school

00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:54.380
even look like. And so I think that's what it's

00:45:54.380 --> 00:45:57.860
representing is this, this, this biological psychological

00:45:57.860 --> 00:46:01.820
change that may is going through and trying to

00:46:01.820 --> 00:46:04.559
learn how to navigate that within herself, within

00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.239
her school and friend community. And then how

00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.389
does she navigate that at home? Within her home

00:46:10.389 --> 00:46:14.909
dynamics as well and learning. Oh these two things

00:46:14.909 --> 00:46:16.969
are in conflict with each other I met as a result

00:46:16.969 --> 00:46:19.349
I'm having internal conflict and I don't really

00:46:19.349 --> 00:46:22.269
know how to navigate this so it stays stuck inside

00:46:22.269 --> 00:46:25.269
Eventually explodes after that that Daisy Mart

00:46:25.269 --> 00:46:28.050
incident with the Panda that that next morning

00:46:28.050 --> 00:46:30.949
Yeah, you know one of the things that you brought

00:46:30.949 --> 00:46:34.250
up is is really the importance of the friendships

00:46:34.250 --> 00:46:36.550
the social friendships that you have during that

00:46:36.550 --> 00:46:38.530
time and One of the things I thought interesting

00:46:38.530 --> 00:46:41.710
here was after she starts becoming the Red Panda,

00:46:41.809 --> 00:46:44.469
she has to find a way to kind of find, I don't

00:46:44.469 --> 00:46:46.809
know, equanimity, so to speak, right? She's got

00:46:46.809 --> 00:46:49.110
to find a way to calm herself down. Ends up being

00:46:49.110 --> 00:46:52.329
memories that she has with her friends, not...

00:46:52.699 --> 00:46:55.280
Her mom and her dad. Right. And she hides that

00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.579
from her mom and dad because she knows it would

00:46:57.579 --> 00:47:00.139
crush her mom. Yeah. And in reality, like that

00:47:00.139 --> 00:47:02.500
friend relationship, those three friends she

00:47:02.500 --> 00:47:04.940
had were very, very important to her. Yeah. So

00:47:04.940 --> 00:47:07.380
she's suppressing that like, yeah, can't tell

00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:10.559
my mom. Can't be honest because it'll crush her

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:12.480
knowing that really my friends help calm me down.

00:47:12.539 --> 00:47:14.730
Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, you see

00:47:14.730 --> 00:47:17.949
that conflict, too, where mom, you know, I think

00:47:17.949 --> 00:47:20.030
it's Miriam that she doesn't approve of, mom

00:47:20.030 --> 00:47:22.969
doesn't approve of, you know. And, yeah, Mae

00:47:22.969 --> 00:47:25.409
doesn't really know how to navigate that and

00:47:25.409 --> 00:47:27.010
say, well, this is somebody I really care about

00:47:27.010 --> 00:47:31.050
and that I'm connected to. For you, what do you

00:47:31.050 --> 00:47:33.929
see as the importance of quality friendships

00:47:33.929 --> 00:47:36.170
for kids in their teens going through junior

00:47:36.170 --> 00:47:38.630
high and high school? Oh, man, I think it's,

00:47:38.630 --> 00:47:41.860
I think it's. I don't think it's an understatement

00:47:41.860 --> 00:47:44.019
to say that it's essential. I think it's essential

00:47:44.019 --> 00:47:47.119
that they have that peer support and that they

00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:49.840
do start to experience connection outside of

00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:52.199
the home. And it's hard. You know, I think, again,

00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:54.960
go back to my own kids. My kids are little right

00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:57.460
now, like five, three, and we have an eight month

00:47:57.460 --> 00:48:00.920
old. And I think about when they get to that

00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:02.940
point right now, they're so excited to see me

00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:05.650
when I get home and just like. I'm their world

00:48:05.650 --> 00:48:07.829
and it's the best feeling, you know, and then,

00:48:07.849 --> 00:48:09.869
but I know that it's not going to always be that

00:48:09.869 --> 00:48:12.489
way and it's not supposed to always be that way

00:48:12.489 --> 00:48:15.030
either. And so I know that's going to be hard

00:48:15.030 --> 00:48:17.190
is just personally, I think it's hard for most

00:48:17.190 --> 00:48:21.289
parents, but I think it is, is crucial because

00:48:21.289 --> 00:48:25.449
they are learning to how to navigate the world,

00:48:25.530 --> 00:48:28.710
navigate school responsibilities, taking those

00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:31.449
school responsibility on more. just on their

00:48:31.449 --> 00:48:33.230
own as they, especially as they get closer to

00:48:33.230 --> 00:48:36.030
like preparing for college, you know, the academics

00:48:36.030 --> 00:48:38.530
are really up to them. Nobody, whether they get

00:48:38.530 --> 00:48:41.349
an A or whether they get an F doesn't really

00:48:41.349 --> 00:48:44.309
impact the parent's career, right? It's not,

00:48:44.309 --> 00:48:45.809
it's not the parents. And that's another thing

00:48:45.809 --> 00:48:47.250
parents need to remember too, is it's not my,

00:48:47.329 --> 00:48:49.369
it's not my career, right? I need to differentiate

00:48:49.369 --> 00:48:52.969
here. I want them to do well. I really want them

00:48:52.969 --> 00:48:55.489
to do well, but it's also not mine. And how do

00:48:55.489 --> 00:48:57.730
I learn to take a step back from that? And their

00:48:57.730 --> 00:48:59.949
successes and failures are their own. That's

00:48:59.949 --> 00:49:02.960
really hard. Very hard. You know, for me, education

00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:06.239
always super important. Yeah. My dad was a school

00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:09.139
teacher for me. Getting higher education was

00:49:09.139 --> 00:49:12.159
always super important. I got good grades because

00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:17.699
I wanted to. Yeah. You know, and so I think with

00:49:17.699 --> 00:49:22.320
my kids, my oldest, he just school is not important

00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:25.739
to him. Yeah, it's just not. And, you know, I've

00:49:25.739 --> 00:49:28.710
tried like, OK, do I just. Do I just be super

00:49:28.710 --> 00:49:30.730
strict about him sitting down and doing homework

00:49:30.730 --> 00:49:33.409
every day after school? Do I just be really exacting

00:49:33.409 --> 00:49:36.730
that way? Sure. Or do I take a different approach

00:49:36.730 --> 00:49:40.190
and just try to find ways to guide him? And I've

00:49:40.190 --> 00:49:41.809
got to have some standard, right? I can't have

00:49:41.809 --> 00:49:43.769
him fail out of school. I need to have him graduate.

00:49:43.909 --> 00:49:46.349
But it's been this really difficult thing. And

00:49:46.349 --> 00:49:48.889
it's interesting because part of my take with

00:49:48.889 --> 00:49:51.510
him is he really just wants to be done with school

00:49:51.510 --> 00:49:53.639
and wants to start working. Okay. That's not

00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:56.880
so bad. Right. Like, okay. Yeah. I'm like, okay.

00:49:56.940 --> 00:49:58.980
He wants to, he wants to be an entrepreneur.

00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:01.880
He wants to run a business. He, um, he kind of

00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:04.619
has a mind that way. And I've, I've had to come

00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:07.420
around to the fact that like, look, higher education

00:50:07.420 --> 00:50:09.840
is probably not going to be his thing. And that's

00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:12.159
okay. Cause that's what he's choosing. Totally.

00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:15.360
Now, how can I support him in those choices that

00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:17.699
he's going to make? But it's hard. Oh, it's very

00:50:17.699 --> 00:50:22.289
hard. Yeah. It's very hard. So yeah, I, um, I

00:50:22.289 --> 00:50:24.250
can't remember the original question now, but

00:50:24.250 --> 00:50:28.889
we were, yeah, with social relationships and

00:50:28.889 --> 00:50:32.250
just how important that is, as they go and do

00:50:32.250 --> 00:50:34.090
that, if they're doing that from a place where

00:50:34.090 --> 00:50:37.510
they are operating alone and they're feeling

00:50:37.510 --> 00:50:41.050
loneliness, loneliness is a significant factor

00:50:41.050 --> 00:50:44.190
in mental health conditions, right? And so if

00:50:44.190 --> 00:50:46.750
they're feeling, I have no support, going to

00:50:46.750 --> 00:50:49.269
school is miserable for me because I have nobody

00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:53.460
that I connect with. no teachers, no kids or

00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:56.360
anything, that's going to be really impactful

00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:58.840
on their mental and emotional health. And so,

00:50:58.940 --> 00:51:01.719
you know, I think about going to school. I remember

00:51:01.719 --> 00:51:04.119
ninth grade, kind of similar to you, something

00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:06.519
just switched in me. And I was like, oh, I really

00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:08.840
want to go to college. And I was like, I really

00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:10.940
want to get good grades to be able to do that.

00:51:11.139 --> 00:51:13.360
And so there was that internal motivation and

00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:15.539
autonomy. I didn't even need my parents to like

00:51:15.539 --> 00:51:18.320
tell me, no, you need to get good grades. I understood

00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:22.599
that. And I wanted to do that. But a huge part,

00:51:22.659 --> 00:51:24.320
even then, knowing that that was my goal from

00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:28.099
the outset as a freshman, I would still say most

00:51:28.099 --> 00:51:30.000
of the time in the day -to -day, why I went to

00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.380
school was to see my friends. I wanted to hang

00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:33.780
out with them. Totally. They were going to be

00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:35.619
there anyways. If I didn't go, what was I going

00:51:35.619 --> 00:51:39.000
to do? And I mean, I'm generally pretty extroverted.

00:51:39.019 --> 00:51:40.760
I like hanging out with people and talking to

00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:43.059
people. And so that's where I wanted to be. I

00:51:43.059 --> 00:51:45.860
wanted to be there with them. And I know if I

00:51:45.860 --> 00:51:47.800
didn't have that social group, it probably would

00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:50.000
have been a lot different experience. I think

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.360
that's right. My best friend, he was only a year

00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:55.199
younger than me, but two years younger in school.

00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.980
And he's smart. He's really, honestly, a lot

00:51:59.980 --> 00:52:03.059
smarter than me in a lot of things. But for him,

00:52:03.059 --> 00:52:06.519
it was a little bit more social. And so when

00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.519
our group of friends, we hung out all the time.

00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:10.159
We saw each other at school all the time. We

00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:13.340
did plays together. Once a lot of us graduated,

00:52:13.579 --> 00:52:17.619
and then he was still there. He was like, nah.

00:52:18.119 --> 00:52:20.219
this is for the birds yeah this is for the birds

00:52:20.219 --> 00:52:22.699
and he didn't end up graduating oh wow yeah he

00:52:22.699 --> 00:52:25.760
i mean he went and got his gd then he went and

00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:27.860
did college then he joined the sheriff's office

00:52:27.860 --> 00:52:29.599
he's now a lieutenant in the sheriff's office

00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:32.119
he's he's one of their main trainers like he's

00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:35.719
a brilliant dude like he he reads all the time

00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:39.780
he loves history right like super smart guy but

00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:42.139
the social part of it was really like really

00:52:42.139 --> 00:52:44.480
really important and when that wasn't there when

00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:47.559
his support went away yeah Then it was like,

00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:51.619
okay, this is not going to work out. And yet,

00:52:51.739 --> 00:52:54.380
like, I mean, he's still been successful. I wouldn't

00:52:54.380 --> 00:52:56.059
tell anybody, like, drop out of school, right,

00:52:56.139 --> 00:52:58.179
at all. But I do think it highlights, like, the

00:52:58.179 --> 00:52:59.719
importance of what those social relationships

00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:02.480
are, that our kids do need to have friends. And

00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:03.619
we want to encourage them to have, like, good

00:53:03.619 --> 00:53:05.280
friends, obviously. Yeah, absolutely. But those

00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:07.679
are really important relationships. Yeah, absolutely.

00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:11.559
So when we, again, look at this idea of the red

00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:14.019
panda, right? Yeah. Um, you know, what lessons

00:53:14.019 --> 00:53:18.260
are there for us from learning? Like once may

00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:21.400
started to figure out how to deal with having

00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:24.599
the, the red Panda and then to have it go away,

00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:26.940
but then having to decide that she want to keep

00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:29.320
this red Panda with her all the time or not.

00:53:29.420 --> 00:53:32.500
Yeah. Cause the women, um, in their family were.

00:53:33.150 --> 00:53:35.090
ultimately like suppressing it and putting it

00:53:35.090 --> 00:53:36.809
in a little trinket right so that it can't ever

00:53:36.809 --> 00:53:38.630
come out it's always going to be there locked

00:53:38.630 --> 00:53:41.210
away yeah and she makes this choice of like i'm

00:53:41.210 --> 00:53:43.010
not going to do that yeah i'm going to allow

00:53:43.010 --> 00:53:45.469
this red panda to be part of me totally right

00:53:45.469 --> 00:53:48.469
so what are the lessons that we can pull from

00:53:48.469 --> 00:53:49.909
that and the way that she was navigating that

00:53:49.909 --> 00:53:53.230
yeah so as i was watching it that was something

00:53:53.230 --> 00:53:55.570
that stood out to me too right here's like we're

00:53:55.570 --> 00:53:57.590
talking about family systems we're dealing with

00:53:57.590 --> 00:54:01.150
generations family systems operating. And so

00:54:01.150 --> 00:54:03.969
we're seeing these three generations from the

00:54:03.969 --> 00:54:08.030
grandma to the mom to May. And I'm sure it even

00:54:08.030 --> 00:54:10.389
predated that. The way they make it sound is

00:54:10.389 --> 00:54:14.130
like this is an ongoing history for a long, long

00:54:14.130 --> 00:54:16.670
time. And that's something to be aware of as

00:54:16.670 --> 00:54:19.670
well as the generational impact as well. And

00:54:19.670 --> 00:54:22.510
that's almost instilled into our DNA as well,

00:54:22.650 --> 00:54:26.469
which is pretty crazy to think about. And so,

00:54:26.510 --> 00:54:30.119
yeah, there's that natural piece of her but may

00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:32.480
ends up being the the person that that breaks

00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:35.820
that by saying no i want to accept this part

00:54:35.820 --> 00:54:40.820
of myself as a part of who i am um you know and

00:54:40.820 --> 00:54:43.820
talking with with families like really to be

00:54:43.820 --> 00:54:46.820
the difference to break pat generational patterns

00:54:46.820 --> 00:54:49.719
is it yeah it takes someone being willing to

00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:51.920
say i want to do it different and i'm going to

00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:54.340
do it different and i'm going to go against what

00:54:54.340 --> 00:54:57.710
my you know programming would be and what I've

00:54:57.710 --> 00:55:00.369
learned. And that is super anxiety provoking

00:55:00.369 --> 00:55:03.110
and super scary. Most people will choose familiarity

00:55:03.110 --> 00:55:05.469
over functionality. I'm going to choose what's

00:55:05.469 --> 00:55:09.530
familiar that that feels safer to me than choosing

00:55:09.530 --> 00:55:11.429
what's a little bit more functional because it

00:55:11.429 --> 00:55:13.769
was coming out in these ways. I would say that

00:55:13.769 --> 00:55:16.130
we're pretty dysfunctional in their family systems.

00:55:16.190 --> 00:55:19.489
Yeah. Um, but yeah, her, her making that decision

00:55:19.489 --> 00:55:22.210
to do it differently. You even see the scariness

00:55:22.210 --> 00:55:25.369
of it at the end when they kind of do the. uh

00:55:25.369 --> 00:55:28.469
the ritual or whatever at the uh the big stadium

00:55:28.469 --> 00:55:32.309
at the big concert right and all of her you know

00:55:32.309 --> 00:55:36.030
aunts and uh and grandmas and this is another

00:55:36.030 --> 00:55:38.349
thing on the connection piece of it i i feel

00:55:38.349 --> 00:55:42.050
like there was this big wall or this gap of connection

00:55:42.050 --> 00:55:44.969
between may and her mom and you see it in in

00:55:44.969 --> 00:55:47.909
her mom and her grandma you know yes that generational

00:55:47.909 --> 00:55:50.050
you know she's like how could she talk to her

00:55:50.050 --> 00:55:52.250
mother that way and then she's like ming it's

00:55:52.250 --> 00:55:54.980
your mother And she's like, I'm not here. And,

00:55:55.019 --> 00:55:59.699
you know, she hides. And so but there's this

00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:03.360
disconnect in this this to me, a loss of opportunity

00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:07.420
for genuine connection that can happen when we

00:56:07.420 --> 00:56:11.360
acknowledge and accept every single part of ourself.

00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:13.920
And so in that scene at the end, when you see

00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:16.619
them, yeah, you know, breaking open their their.

00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:18.500
little trinkets and things that were holding

00:56:18.500 --> 00:56:20.760
that panda that part of themselves that's the

00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:23.719
time you see them the most connected out of the

00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:26.079
whole whole movie and that really stood out to

00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:28.139
me it's like that that connection there the whole

00:56:28.139 --> 00:56:31.579
family connecting through that um it's also interesting

00:56:31.579 --> 00:56:34.659
to me to see how big mom's panda was to me that's

00:56:34.659 --> 00:56:37.239
an indication of like how much she had suppressed

00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:39.000
yeah and going through and then you get that

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:42.829
brief picture of her as a child and that inner

00:56:42.829 --> 00:56:46.110
child piece of it and what her experience was

00:56:46.110 --> 00:56:48.489
and you and and may gets this opportunity which

00:56:48.489 --> 00:56:51.309
how cool would it kind of be to see your parents

00:56:51.309 --> 00:56:53.730
at that age right we just kind of always view

00:56:53.730 --> 00:56:55.630
our parents as being adults like they never were

00:56:55.630 --> 00:56:58.190
kids and stuff and so she gets that opportunity

00:56:58.190 --> 00:57:01.570
to see that um but as they're they're they're

00:57:01.570 --> 00:57:03.510
now kind of finished with the ritual may's the

00:57:03.510 --> 00:57:05.550
only one keeping the panda everyone else kind

00:57:05.550 --> 00:57:08.940
of goes back out the little portal thing um Mesa's

00:57:08.940 --> 00:57:11.539
something along the lines of like, although she

00:57:11.539 --> 00:57:14.320
wants to keep the panda, but I'm afraid it means

00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:16.719
that I'm going to lose you, you know? And I think

00:57:16.719 --> 00:57:19.800
that's where the enmeshment piece of it becomes

00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:23.440
really difficult to break is it's associated

00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:26.460
with, I'm going to lose this relationship if

00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:29.480
I try to set a boundary, you know, but she finally

00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:31.900
opens up about that and has, you know, gets to

00:57:31.900 --> 00:57:35.380
the core of, I think what, what. Her worst fear

00:57:35.380 --> 00:57:38.340
would be is if I set a boundary with you and

00:57:38.340 --> 00:57:40.699
tell you really how I feel, you're not going

00:57:40.699 --> 00:57:42.280
to love me anymore or you're going to reject

00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:45.360
me or I'm not going to have my mom. Yeah. The

00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:48.820
dad in those moments towards the end says something

00:57:48.820 --> 00:57:53.019
I think really profound, right, as he decides

00:57:53.019 --> 00:57:55.219
to weigh in. And one of the things he said is

00:57:55.219 --> 00:57:58.860
people have all kinds of sides to them and some

00:57:58.860 --> 00:58:01.559
sides are messy. The point isn't to push the

00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:04.340
bad stuff away. It's to make room for it. live

00:58:04.340 --> 00:58:07.119
with it so it was interesting you know his this

00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:09.619
take he's taking because it's like okay you have

00:58:09.619 --> 00:58:12.079
these these emotions you have these things that

00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:14.780
are tough and difficult and uh maybe mom doesn't

00:58:14.780 --> 00:58:17.340
like but like hey look it's part of who you are

00:58:17.340 --> 00:58:19.559
we're gonna we're gonna make room for it and

00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:20.940
we're gonna we're gonna live with these things

00:58:20.940 --> 00:58:23.480
because then you don't have to be suppressing

00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.460
who you are all the time Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

00:58:26.460 --> 00:58:28.099
I think that's great. I think that's probably

00:58:28.099 --> 00:58:30.260
what a teenager in that situation, that's exactly

00:58:30.260 --> 00:58:32.059
what they need to hear, especially from their

00:58:32.059 --> 00:58:34.159
parents. And then they can really feel like confident

00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:36.860
and trusted, like, Oh, I can, I can, this part

00:58:36.860 --> 00:58:39.260
of me is okay. You're telling me that you accept

00:58:39.260 --> 00:58:41.260
me this way, you know? And I think that's where

00:58:41.260 --> 00:58:43.940
she starts to develop a little bit more confidence

00:58:43.940 --> 00:58:46.099
and, and being willing to share that with her

00:58:46.099 --> 00:58:48.619
mom as well. She was getting it from dad. And

00:58:48.619 --> 00:58:50.599
one of the things, you know, within family systems

00:58:50.599 --> 00:58:54.119
is everyone's trying to achieve balance, you

00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:56.840
know, divorced family systems married family

00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:59.280
systems everyone just naturally kind of wants

00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:02.599
to achieve this balance um because that's what

00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:05.179
feels the most calming for our nervous systems

00:59:05.179 --> 00:59:07.800
right and i think you see that with the mom and

00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:11.639
the dad right like mom i would say you know pretty

00:59:11.639 --> 00:59:15.400
high in neuroticism and and you know very very

00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:17.880
achievement oriented focus just really wound

00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:20.579
tight where dad is the opposite of that and i

00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:22.559
think you act i think that Disney did a great

00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:25.099
job showing that relationship because I think

00:59:25.099 --> 00:59:27.639
it's actually really common that you have one

00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:30.460
parent who's really that way and you have one

00:59:30.460 --> 00:59:33.360
who's a little bit more lax. And on a subconscious

00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:36.659
level or maybe a conscious level, it's to achieve

00:59:36.659 --> 00:59:40.219
balance, to keep things balanced in a relationship

00:59:40.219 --> 00:59:42.900
dynamic. That's so interesting. And I think maybe

00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:44.500
that's why a lot of times you find that. Yeah.

00:59:44.539 --> 00:59:47.940
Yeah. That's so interesting. So as we kind of...

00:59:48.969 --> 00:59:51.449
wrap up about turning red before we jump to our,

00:59:51.449 --> 00:59:53.829
uh, or this or that or epifier segments, what,

00:59:53.889 --> 00:59:55.849
what's kind of your overall kind of takeaway

00:59:55.849 --> 00:59:59.449
from turning red that, you know, people can kind

00:59:59.449 --> 01:00:01.989
of learn from what, what's, uh, what are some

01:00:01.989 --> 01:00:03.610
of the most important things that, that you think

01:00:03.610 --> 01:00:06.909
people should know? Well, yeah, I'd say the,

01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:09.949
uh, kind of my mind, the way my mind organized

01:00:09.949 --> 01:00:11.670
this was like on the family level, the parent

01:00:11.670 --> 01:00:13.949
level and the individual level. And so on the

01:00:13.949 --> 01:00:16.050
family level, it's exactly what I was just saying

01:00:16.050 --> 01:00:19.130
is an understanding that within a relationship

01:00:19.130 --> 01:00:21.650
system and especially within families, everyone

01:00:21.650 --> 01:00:24.190
kind of naturally gravitates to their role within

01:00:24.190 --> 01:00:26.769
the family. And a lot of times that's subconscious.

01:00:27.010 --> 01:00:29.769
Sometimes I can be conscious, but subconsciously

01:00:29.769 --> 01:00:32.119
it's because it's. we're trying to achieve balance

01:00:32.119 --> 01:00:35.179
and feel, just keep things flowing, keep things

01:00:35.179 --> 01:00:37.599
functional, right? But what happens is that can

01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:39.940
lead to patterns of enmeshment or something like

01:00:39.940 --> 01:00:42.420
that, where it's actually not functional, but

01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:44.440
it's familiar and it helps me feel calm and it

01:00:44.440 --> 01:00:46.420
helps you feel calm. So we'll just kind of go

01:00:46.420 --> 01:00:49.940
this way with how we're doing things. But I like

01:00:49.940 --> 01:00:52.300
to frame it that way when I'm working with families

01:00:52.300 --> 01:00:55.239
as well, to kind of take some of the blame. out

01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:57.619
of it of like, oh, you're doing this, so I have

01:00:57.619 --> 01:00:59.980
to do this. Because if we have this understanding

01:00:59.980 --> 01:01:02.920
of we're operating from this place of we all

01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:05.639
just want to feel balanced and feel like things

01:01:05.639 --> 01:01:09.619
are functioning smoothly, then we can know, oh,

01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:11.760
this is a system and we're just reacting the

01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:13.719
way that we feel like we need to. One of my favorite

01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:16.460
quotes is, if you're not... aware of your system,

01:01:16.500 --> 01:01:18.820
then you're just reacting to your system. And

01:01:18.820 --> 01:01:20.739
so increasing that awareness of what's going

01:01:20.739 --> 01:01:23.619
on, I think really helps take some of the harshness

01:01:23.619 --> 01:01:25.780
or the criticism that we could potentially throw

01:01:25.780 --> 01:01:28.480
at family members and lay the groundwork for

01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.800
having an honest conversation. So that's the

01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:32.559
first thing I would say is like from the family

01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:36.219
perspective, from the parent perspective, there's

01:01:36.219 --> 01:01:38.440
this really great book by Dr. Dan Siegel called

01:01:38.440 --> 01:01:40.079
Parenting from the Inside Out. And it's one I

01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:42.619
recommend to parents all the time because essentially

01:01:42.619 --> 01:01:46.469
what he's talking about is Do your own work so

01:01:46.469 --> 01:01:49.250
that you can be a more effective parent. There's

01:01:49.250 --> 01:01:51.130
certain things, like if you went through a really

01:01:51.130 --> 01:01:54.510
hard time as a 13 -year -old, when your kid's

01:01:54.510 --> 01:01:56.849
13, you're probably going to get more triggered

01:01:56.849 --> 01:01:59.090
about different things that are going on. Like

01:01:59.090 --> 01:02:02.170
if you were, let's say socially you didn't have

01:02:02.170 --> 01:02:04.690
very many friends at school, and then your 13

01:02:04.690 --> 01:02:07.699
-year -old gets rejected at school. That's probably

01:02:07.699 --> 01:02:09.739
going to bring up some big things for you. I'm

01:02:09.739 --> 01:02:12.739
sure. And so just knowing that about yourself

01:02:12.739 --> 01:02:14.820
so that you're not being reactive in that parent

01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:17.940
child relationship as well. So that's the other

01:02:17.940 --> 01:02:20.360
thing I would say or take away to have his parent

01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:22.559
from the inside out, recognize what your triggers

01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:25.139
are, potentially even go to therapy, explore

01:02:25.139 --> 01:02:27.519
that a little bit more if it may be beneficial

01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:30.619
for you. And then lastly, on the individual level

01:02:30.619 --> 01:02:32.389
is kind of. what we see at the end of the movie,

01:02:32.449 --> 01:02:34.949
this integration, that quote that the dad says.

01:02:35.409 --> 01:02:37.769
And I think, and then may, I think ends the movie

01:02:37.769 --> 01:02:41.369
with like, we have these messy, loud parts of

01:02:41.369 --> 01:02:45.230
ourselves. I let it out. What about you? And

01:02:45.230 --> 01:02:47.429
it kind of ends with this challenge of, are you

01:02:47.429 --> 01:02:49.489
going to do the same thing? Right. And I think

01:02:49.489 --> 01:02:51.590
it's great because it invites the audience to

01:02:51.590 --> 01:02:54.929
reflect on what messy and loud parts of myself,

01:02:55.050 --> 01:02:57.349
which are totally acceptable. I can have all

01:02:57.349 --> 01:03:01.010
of these parts of myself. Am I not letting out?

01:03:01.309 --> 01:03:03.429
Which parts of those am I just holding on to?

01:03:03.889 --> 01:03:06.369
And am I willing to take the step to maybe let

01:03:06.369 --> 01:03:08.889
those out? And that's what I love about the integration

01:03:08.889 --> 01:03:11.190
of it and seeing her successfully integrate the

01:03:11.190 --> 01:03:14.690
panda into her life and the benefits that she

01:03:14.690 --> 01:03:16.510
gets from that, from being sincere, from being

01:03:16.510 --> 01:03:18.449
honest, from being vulnerable, you know, to talk

01:03:18.449 --> 01:03:20.489
about like Brene Brown, like the thing that's

01:03:20.489 --> 01:03:24.159
the most connecting is vulnerability. with people.

01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:25.940
And so being able to talk about those messy and

01:03:25.940 --> 01:03:28.960
loud parts, except those, those parts of yourself,

01:03:29.219 --> 01:03:31.440
those, those would be the three takeaways I would

01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:35.219
say. Fabulous. Love it. Okay. So let's jump into

01:03:35.219 --> 01:03:37.679
a real quick, uh, this or that segment. Okay.

01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:40.480
So it's just which you prefer, right? This or

01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:44.199
that. Okay. Here we go. Red Panda or Snow Leopard.

01:03:44.559 --> 01:03:47.039
Red Panda. Okay. They're actually really cute.

01:03:47.139 --> 01:03:48.900
Yeah. They're pretty small. Yeah. They're actually

01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:52.960
like super cute. Um, You have to dig deep. I

01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:53.920
don't know if you're going to know these ones,

01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:58.980
but Four Town or Powerline. Do you know Powerline?

01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:00.460
I don't know if I know Powerline. Goofy movie.

01:04:00.889 --> 01:04:03.289
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Powerline's from the Goofy

01:04:03.289 --> 01:04:06.269
movie, right? Four Town from Red Panda, Powerline

01:04:06.269 --> 01:04:07.809
from Goofy movie. Well, you just reminded me

01:04:07.809 --> 01:04:10.250
of that. I'll have to do Powerline because that

01:04:10.250 --> 01:04:13.130
brings up a lot of nostalgia for me. I'm a very

01:04:13.130 --> 01:04:15.769
nostalgic person, too, so I love reminiscing

01:04:15.769 --> 01:04:18.389
and thinking about things like that. So, yeah,

01:04:18.449 --> 01:04:20.809
Powerline. Eye to Eye, right? That's the song

01:04:20.809 --> 01:04:22.570
from Powerline. Yes. Oh, it's so good. I just

01:04:22.570 --> 01:04:23.949
listened to it this morning, actually. I'm going

01:04:23.949 --> 01:04:24.750
to go listen to that right now. That's why I

01:04:24.750 --> 01:04:26.329
came up. I was like, oh, let's just listen to

01:04:26.329 --> 01:04:29.860
this. That's a great song. Playing an instrument

01:04:29.860 --> 01:04:32.659
or playing sports? Playing sports. You know,

01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:35.619
I love music and I wish that I would have learned

01:04:35.619 --> 01:04:38.920
how to play an instrument more. But I ended up

01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:40.920
playing sports growing up. So I'll go playing

01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:46.039
sports. Same, same. Cooking a nice dish or grilling?

01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:49.380
I mean, going back to our conversation before

01:04:49.380 --> 01:04:51.989
the podcast, I'd have to say. grilling yeah i

01:04:51.989 --> 01:04:54.230
thought you might yeah i thought you might but

01:04:54.230 --> 01:04:55.530
i was like i'm gonna still challenge it we're

01:04:55.530 --> 01:04:56.989
supposed to see maybe he's an amazing cook as

01:04:56.989 --> 01:04:59.369
well in addition to grilling no no fortunately

01:04:59.369 --> 01:05:01.409
my wife is an amazing cook so she compensates

01:05:01.409 --> 01:05:04.369
for my limitations there and uh usually i'm the

01:05:04.369 --> 01:05:07.269
one on the grill yeah i rarely cook yeah i i

01:05:07.269 --> 01:05:09.989
grill and smoke yeah And that's like my jam find

01:05:09.989 --> 01:05:12.449
me as well. And for me, it's smoking because,

01:05:12.530 --> 01:05:14.510
well, I'm over 40 and I'm told that like once

01:05:14.510 --> 01:05:17.570
you're 40, you start smoking meats and you really

01:05:17.570 --> 01:05:19.210
care about taking care of your lawn and what

01:05:19.210 --> 01:05:21.429
it looks like. I'm like, yeah, guilty and guilty.

01:05:21.550 --> 01:05:26.489
That's what I've done. So I'll own it. Um, late

01:05:26.489 --> 01:05:31.730
night talk or early morning walk. Oh man. Phase

01:05:31.730 --> 01:05:34.210
of life thing. If you were to ask me that as

01:05:34.210 --> 01:05:37.639
a. Teenager and college student, I'd say late

01:05:37.639 --> 01:05:39.940
night talk, but now early morning walk. Early

01:05:39.940 --> 01:05:42.139
morning is now my favorite time of day. I love

01:05:42.139 --> 01:05:44.460
that. Getting up when no one's awake and just

01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:48.079
kind of having that quietness and stillness before

01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:50.960
the day starts. Yeah, early morning walk for

01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:53.760
me. Same. That's my jam. Night at the movies

01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:57.840
or a concert? Oh, wow. That's really tough. Really

01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:01.519
tough because I love movies and I also love concerts.

01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:03.719
I'll probably have to say movies. I end up doing

01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:06.519
that. that more uh who's going to go into the

01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:08.480
movies yeah going to movies so fun there's something

01:06:09.070 --> 01:06:11.909
there's a buzz about going to it with other people,

01:06:11.969 --> 01:06:13.989
the shared experience you have and the smell

01:06:13.989 --> 01:06:16.590
of the popcorn. Yeah, it's visceral. I'm such

01:06:16.590 --> 01:06:18.590
a movie guy. Yeah, experience, love it. I love

01:06:18.590 --> 01:06:21.710
movies. Disneyland or Disney World? Disneyland.

01:06:22.170 --> 01:06:23.889
Yeah, I think Disneyland. You said you're a nostalgia

01:06:23.889 --> 01:06:26.469
guy, so I was thinking probably there. You grew

01:06:26.469 --> 01:06:29.269
up in, I mean, it was Northern California, right,

01:06:29.369 --> 01:06:30.969
for the most part, but I imagine you've probably

01:06:30.969 --> 01:06:32.750
been to Disneyland more times than Disney World.

01:06:32.929 --> 01:06:35.349
Yeah, a lot easier to get to for sure, and yeah,

01:06:35.429 --> 01:06:37.769
Disneyland is like. I remember watching the Disneyland

01:06:37.769 --> 01:06:40.789
documentary on Disney plus two and just the whole

01:06:40.789 --> 01:06:42.389
creation of it and everything. And I was like,

01:06:42.429 --> 01:06:45.530
this is so cool to me, you know? So yeah. I love

01:06:45.530 --> 01:06:47.429
me some Disneyland. Okay. Here's our rapid fire.

01:06:47.469 --> 01:06:50.789
Okay. Okay. Favorite Disney movie. Probably pirates

01:06:50.789 --> 01:06:53.500
of the Caribbean. Oh, and the first one, I take

01:06:53.500 --> 01:06:56.079
it. Yes. I mean, Curse of Black Pearl is so good.

01:06:56.320 --> 01:06:58.579
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's incredible. Like it came

01:06:58.579 --> 01:07:00.139
out. It was just like a revelation. Like this

01:07:00.139 --> 01:07:03.239
thing is unbelievable. Yeah. And it's so quotable.

01:07:03.260 --> 01:07:06.420
I mean, so quotable. The soundtrack is amazing.

01:07:06.539 --> 01:07:08.480
Yeah. You know, I mean, there's a lot of Disney

01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:10.820
movies that I like. And that's I probably have

01:07:10.820 --> 01:07:13.260
a lot of favorites, to be honest with you. But

01:07:13.260 --> 01:07:16.019
that was the one that popped up first. Pirates

01:07:16.019 --> 01:07:19.550
is so good. Favorite Disney song. Probably It's

01:07:19.550 --> 01:07:24.650
a Small World. Really? Yeah. I think about Disneyland,

01:07:24.730 --> 01:07:27.730
some of my first times going there and just like

01:07:27.730 --> 01:07:29.849
being at the park. I don't know why, but that's

01:07:29.849 --> 01:07:31.969
a memory that I have from the first time I ever

01:07:31.969 --> 01:07:35.250
went to Disneyland is hearing that song and going

01:07:35.250 --> 01:07:37.050
on the ride. There must be something about it.

01:07:37.090 --> 01:07:38.550
I've had somebody else tell me that was their

01:07:38.550 --> 01:07:40.889
favorite Disney song as well. Yeah. And my wife

01:07:40.889 --> 01:07:43.510
loves It's a Small World. She loves going. We

01:07:43.510 --> 01:07:45.250
always have to go every time. Yeah. And I'll

01:07:45.250 --> 01:07:47.619
be honest, I could do without. I'm like, take

01:07:47.619 --> 01:07:49.619
it or leave it. Like if I have to go sit through

01:07:49.619 --> 01:07:51.500
it, I guess I will. I'll use it for like a nap

01:07:51.500 --> 01:07:53.039
during the middle of the day. Right. Cause it's

01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.539
just nice little shirt. Right. But some people

01:07:55.539 --> 01:07:57.539
love the smart world and you're one of them.

01:07:57.579 --> 01:08:00.239
So I like it. Yeah. Again, more nostalgic factor.

01:08:00.420 --> 01:08:02.380
But the thing I love about Disneyland too, is

01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:05.260
that. I just love that there's Disney music playing

01:08:05.260 --> 01:08:07.900
and you can just be like, oh, this is from that

01:08:07.900 --> 01:08:09.980
movie. Oh, this is from that movie. Or even if

01:08:09.980 --> 01:08:11.679
you don't know what it's from, it still just

01:08:11.679 --> 01:08:14.639
adds to the experience. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, they

01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:16.939
cure the experience from the front entrance to

01:08:16.939 --> 01:08:19.899
the end of the night. Favorite Disney princess?

01:08:21.859 --> 01:08:28.279
Ooh, probably... Oh, man, that's tough. Probably

01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:30.800
say Belle. Belle. She's a good one. She's a good

01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:31.960
one. That's a pretty popular pick. Yeah, I've

01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:34.340
always been more into brunettes than balloons.

01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:41.279
That's why. Favorite Disney villain? Captain

01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:47.979
Hook. Probably. Also goes into, I love Robin

01:08:47.979 --> 01:08:50.199
Williams. I was going to ask if it was the version

01:08:50.199 --> 01:08:53.039
of Captain Hook. Yeah, Dustin Hoffman. Yes. Yeah,

01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:55.859
it's so good. Dustin Hoffman is amazing as Captain

01:08:55.859 --> 01:08:58.720
Hook. Yeah, he does so good with that. And my

01:08:58.720 --> 01:09:01.149
kids recently. started watching Peter Pan for

01:09:01.149 --> 01:09:03.890
the first time not too long ago. And it's just

01:09:03.890 --> 01:09:08.810
so fun. Have you, have you taken them to Disneyland

01:09:08.810 --> 01:09:11.050
and gone on the Peter Pan ride? Yes, we have.

01:09:11.149 --> 01:09:13.949
Well, not my youngest, the baby we haven't yet,

01:09:14.010 --> 01:09:16.090
but the other two. Yeah, we did. That's a huge

01:09:16.090 --> 01:09:18.930
nostalgia ride. Yeah. Like it is such a popular

01:09:18.930 --> 01:09:21.149
in fantasy land. It's by far the most popular

01:09:21.149 --> 01:09:23.270
ride in fantasy land. Like everybody wants to

01:09:23.270 --> 01:09:25.069
go on Peter Pan. Yeah. You check the wait time.

01:09:25.529 --> 01:09:29.609
Yeah. Sometimes it's super long. Yeah. Favorite

01:09:29.609 --> 01:09:33.930
food? Just food in general? In general. Oh, man,

01:09:33.989 --> 01:09:37.250
probably pizza. I love pizza. Pizza's so good.

01:09:37.329 --> 01:09:39.840
What about favorite food at Disneyland? Oh, favorite

01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:42.659
food at Disneyland. Um, certain things I always

01:09:42.659 --> 01:09:45.659
got to get are a turkey leg. Usually we'll get

01:09:45.659 --> 01:09:47.520
myself a turkey leg just to kind of walk around

01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:50.359
and eat, you know, walk around this giant piece

01:09:50.359 --> 01:09:53.439
of meat. Exactly. I think the first time I ever

01:09:53.439 --> 01:09:56.060
actually had a turkey leg was at Epcot and it

01:09:56.060 --> 01:09:58.300
changed my life. So from there on out, yeah,

01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:00.539
you're a loyalist. You get the turkey leg, but

01:10:00.539 --> 01:10:02.239
I love it. Also then follow it up with like a

01:10:02.239 --> 01:10:05.100
little, uh, Mickey mouse ice cream bar thing

01:10:05.100 --> 01:10:07.479
for dessert. Yeah, absolutely. Nice way to polish

01:10:07.479 --> 01:10:11.590
it off. Favorite ride at Disney? Any Disney park.

01:10:11.989 --> 01:10:14.590
Probably also Pirates of the Caribbean. Again,

01:10:15.130 --> 01:10:18.609
not that it's the most exhilarating ride. I mean,

01:10:18.630 --> 01:10:20.229
it has the drops at the beginning and whatnot,

01:10:20.369 --> 01:10:22.710
but the aesthetics and the experience and then

01:10:22.710 --> 01:10:25.689
how they integrated the movies into it now, too.

01:10:25.789 --> 01:10:28.529
I remember going to a pre -movie, you know, and

01:10:28.529 --> 01:10:30.529
then they... Yeah, obviously brought in Jack

01:10:30.529 --> 01:10:33.670
Sparrow and everything. So it's fun. It's just

01:10:33.670 --> 01:10:35.750
a classic. It's one where, you know, if I had

01:10:35.750 --> 01:10:38.970
to pick just one ride to go to while I was at

01:10:38.970 --> 01:10:41.609
Disneyland, I'd say, okay, well, let's do Pirates.

01:10:41.609 --> 01:10:43.430
That's the one that I'll do. I have to go on

01:10:43.430 --> 01:10:45.649
Pirates when I go. It's like a must -do. And

01:10:45.649 --> 01:10:48.750
the last one here is favorite parenting tip.

01:10:49.550 --> 01:10:52.850
Favorite parenting tip, I mean, kind of ties

01:10:52.850 --> 01:10:55.569
into what my takeaway was, is parenting from

01:10:55.569 --> 01:10:59.140
the inside out. And maybe another way I would

01:10:59.140 --> 01:11:02.220
say that is increasing your distress tolerance

01:11:02.220 --> 01:11:05.600
to throw in a clinical term, like your ability

01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:08.539
to tolerate when your kid is going through something

01:11:08.539 --> 01:11:11.560
difficult or brings up emotions from you, your

01:11:11.560 --> 01:11:14.199
ability to just sit in that and to tolerate and

01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:17.359
not be reactive. If you can learn how to do that,

01:11:17.479 --> 01:11:20.359
you're really setting yourself up to successfully

01:11:20.359 --> 01:11:23.659
have some conversations and help your... help

01:11:23.659 --> 01:11:26.500
model for your kid, for your teen, how to handle

01:11:26.500 --> 01:11:29.000
things appropriately and maturely. Yeah. It's

01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:31.319
a great one, Mitch. Thank you. Thanks Ryan. Yeah.

01:11:31.340 --> 01:11:33.300
This was super fun. I was super excited when

01:11:33.300 --> 01:11:34.760
you, when you asked me to come on. So thanks

01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:36.659
for having me. It was a blast. Thank you so much.

01:11:37.739 --> 01:11:40.479
As you leave this conversation, remember that

01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:43.319
yes, the past can hurt and you can either run

01:11:43.319 --> 01:11:46.520
from it or you can learn from it. So here's to

01:11:46.520 --> 01:11:50.020
learning and finding joy in the journey. See

01:11:50.020 --> 01:11:50.539
you real soon.