The Incredibles and Why Marriages Fall Apart with Cassie Callister

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I had a baby, and so I felt like I needed safety

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and security, but we also felt a lot of pressure

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from other people to get married because I didn't

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have, at the time, one trusted adult to talk

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to. That's so hard. Not one trusted adult. All

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of my teen years, throughout adulthood. Because

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he had his whole identity wrapped up into being

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Mr. Incredible. And then when he couldn't...

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Then suddenly he like falls apart, right? Loses

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his job. He's just depressed all the time. He

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has no idea who he is. The problem is never each

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other. It should be you two against the problem.

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Not you two against each other. Nobody owes you

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anything. But you owe yourself everything. When

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we are more focused on ourselves, how we're showing

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up in relationships, and what we're doing to

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improve ourselves, it's kind of like the domino

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effect. Everything else just works a little better.

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And if the outcome doesn't end up being what

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you want it to be, then you're at least able

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to process it with a little bit more peace, knowing

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that you did everything that you could. Welcome

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to Yes And Land. where we say yes to the reality

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of yesterday and today, and we say and to the

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possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow.

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Welcome, everybody, to our next episode of Yes

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and Land. We are very excited today for our guest.

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Our guest today is Cassie Callister. She is a

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life coach. She has helped coach and assist many

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people through some really difficult challenges

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in life, helped them to peel back the layers,

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make improvements to themselves, and ultimately

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then make improvements in their relationships.

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And so we're going to talk today a little bit

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about that, what it's like to... Do some work

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on yourself to help make some improvements, understanding

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more about yourself, which ultimately has benefits

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to the relationships in our lives. And we're

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going to do so today through an excellent Disney

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Pixar movie, which is The Incredibles, which

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is a great movie. Shows a lot about relationships,

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right? Yeah. Of Mr. and Mrs. Incredible. So that'll

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be really fun for us to talk about that today.

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Yeah. Excited. So as we jump in, Cassie. Tell

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us a little bit about, let's hear a little bit

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about your journey. Kind of row it like all the

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way back. Like help everybody understand like

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who is Cassie? Where did you come from? So we

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can kind of see the evolution of your journey.

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Yeah, thank you. So I grew up around here, typical,

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you know, Utah gal. I got married really young.

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And I have my own three kids. I've had two grandbabies.

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One of them passed away in 2022, but I'm still

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a Grammy. And I was divorced about eight, nine

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years ago. And I learned a lot from that, as

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we all do when it comes to different challenges

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in life. And I love that we're using the Incredibles

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today. Because I can look back at my own marriage,

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even dating experiences since then, and I can

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relate a lot to that dynamic. And I think a lot

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of people can. And so I don't know if we'll be

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getting more into divorce and relationships and

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things like that. But I can say that looking

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back on my life, a lot of how I showed up in

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my marriage was based off of my environment that

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I grew up in and how I was raised. And so it's

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been really fun to study the psychology of my

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own life experiences and study just human behavior

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in general so that I can better understand my

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own behaviors, how I showed up in my marriage,

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how I didn't show up, and I can now help others

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in their journey. Yeah, which I think is... Such

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a helpful thing. And, you know, as we talked

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previously, you know, a lot of times what you're

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doing is helping people understand more about

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themselves so that they can stay married. You

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know, and obviously we're talking about, you're

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talking about the divorce attorney who I help

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people, you know, disconnect, like I help them

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get divorced. But I do think, I think it's a

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helpful dynamic to see because. And I've said

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this before on this podcast, but when people

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come to me and they ask if they should get divorced,

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I tell them that's their decision, right? I'm

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not here to tell them they should get divorced.

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I'm here to help them get divorced if that's

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the choice they've made, right? If that's where

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they've arrived to and they've done the work

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and that's where they need to go, then I'll help

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them do it. Or if their partner's decided that

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and they need to navigate it, that's what I help

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them do. work together, work on themselves and

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stay together, I mean, honestly, we are all for

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it. Absolutely. I do think as well that those

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who do work on themselves can end up being better

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co -parents as well if they do have to get divorced.

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Because there's a lot of things that I kind of

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want to peel back and want to understand a little

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bit more. So let's go back to... You said you

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got married young. Tell me more about that. So

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in your life at that time, what's kind of like

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the motivations to get married young? What was

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that experience like when you were getting married

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young? Yeah. So I can only speak to my experience.

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And at that time, I was 18 years old and I had

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a baby. And so I felt like. I needed safety and

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security, but we also felt a lot of pressure

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from other people to get married. And after all,

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like the father of my children and my ex -husband,

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we grew up together. And so he was my best buddy.

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Sure. And so I thought, oh, yeah, this is a great

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idea. You know, like I had already graduated

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high school early, started to put myself through

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college. And right in the beginning, I thought,

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well. This is going to be me by myself raising

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this child for who knows how long. And so originally

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I picked a career based off of that. But then

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with time, he decided to propose and with a little

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pressure and not even really knowing what to

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do because we're kids. Like you don't know what

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to look for. You don't know how to date consciously.

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You don't know what questions to ask each other.

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basing a lot of things off of just your feelings

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in that moment. And so today, that is one thing

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I help others do because I work with a lot of

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people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s who still

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don't know how to navigate relationships. And

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that's where I was at at 18. You get married

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for a lot of the wrong reasons because you don't

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know what you're doing. But then when you have

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challenges arise or you realize that maybe you're

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not quite compatible. then what do you do? And

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so we didn't quite have the tools to navigate

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that. And so, yeah, I was able to learn a lot

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afterwards. Yeah. What would you do to coach

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your 18 -year -old self knowing what you know

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now? You can't go back and change it because

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that's part of what made you who you are. But

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if you were coaching somebody in that situation,

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how would you coach them? Yeah. I think a lot

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of my decisions personally stemmed from a lack

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of self -love. Okay. A lot of my relationship

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choices and just decisions I made in general.

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At that time in my life, probably from age 13

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and on and after divorce. And so it's so important

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that we teach our kids how to love themselves

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and what that looks like, boundaries and what

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you're OK with and not OK with and just what

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you deserve. And so if I were to coach myself

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at that time, I would say to slow down. And get

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to know yourself first. And ask if you genuinely

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love yourself or if you are seeking people and

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things outside of yourself to feel that. And

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I would really, we can't give what we don't have.

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So if I don't love myself. how can I fully love

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another person in the way that they deserve?

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And how can I fully show up in a way that serves

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us both? And so what that looked like for me

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in my marriage is, yes, I got married young.

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I didn't know who I was. I didn't really know

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what I wanted in life. But at the time, I had

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this gorgeous baby. I was getting my education.

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It seemed like the best thing to do. But there's

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no... There was no deadline. I didn't need to

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make a decision. And so I would also coach myself

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to slow down, figure things out, make sure that

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this is right for you. Maybe go to therapy or

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get a coach because I didn't have at the time

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one trusted adult to talk to. That's so hard.

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Not one trusted adult. All of my teen years throughout

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adulthood. Really, it just was a negative thing.

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Therapy and coaching was a negative thing. And

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so I felt like I had to internalize it and process

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it all on my own. And I honestly didn't know

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how. And so. I'm sure we'll get to this. So in

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my marriage, I didn't know how to communicate.

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And I also didn't have enough self -love to make

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sure that I got into a relationship that was

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best for me and with the qualities that were

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best for me and healthy. Yeah. When we talk about

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having the self -love. So what's your advice

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there for somebody, again, in that similar situation

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to find that? Because I do think that that's

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something that we hear more about these days

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that honestly, when I was growing up, we didn't.

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I mean, when I was that age, that was not something

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that was like in vogue at all. Now I think it

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is, but I still think that there's this missing

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component of like, what does that mean? How do

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you do it? How do you find more of that love

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for who you are so that you can find more security

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with yourself? And when you're more secure with

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yourself and you love yourself more, like you

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said, then you open yourself up to helping somebody

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else, loving somebody else as well. How do you

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do that? Yeah, that's a great question. And I

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think the conversation sounds and looks different

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depending on age. Unfortunately, I had to figure

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that out at age 37, and that's not fun. And so

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I wish these conversations happened more with

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our kids, and I wish they happened more at school.

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But when it comes to acquiring self -love, it's

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not really what we think. Yes, it could be bubble

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baths and massages and taking yourself on vacations

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and buying yourself things, but that's not quite

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what it is. And that's not going to bring you

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longevity in that area. And so what self -love

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looks like is understanding what you're okay

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with and not okay with. That looks like boundaries.

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That looks like I'm not going to choose self

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-abandonment. Over self -respect. I always choose

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self -respect. But that definition can be different

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for everyone. You know, what do they feel is

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respectful or not respectful? And so that was

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one of my biggest things is having the courage

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to communicate what I'm okay with and not okay

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with. Just growing up my whole life, I always

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chose to be the good girl. Just be quiet. Be

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a doormat. That's easier. The people pleaser.

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In the long run, that's very damaging. And so

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oftentimes self -love looks like becoming curious

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about who you are, why you do what you do, and

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pouring into yourself and learning more about

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yourself, and then creating a life full of people

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and environments and opportunities that support

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that love. And having the courage to communicate

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or walk away when it doesn't. I think one of

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the things you mentioned there, which is I think

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really key, which is the people -poisoning component

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of it that can stem from that lack of self -love.

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Because with the self -love and the confidence

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to say like, oh, no, that actually doesn't work

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for me. Yeah. Right. But when we just want to

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people -please, we swallow that down. Right.

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We don't have enough gumption to say like, that

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doesn't work. I don't want to do that. That that's

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not okay. It's interesting when I was visiting

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with a marriage and family therapist recently,

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we talked a little bit about the people pleasing

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versus, you know, teenagers kind of like pushing

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back. Right. And that actually he was saying

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he was more encouraged by a teenager really pushing

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back. Yeah. Because they're not going to be as

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much of that people pleasing. And it might seem

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like the people pleaser when they're a teenager

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is nice because they're easier to raise. At the

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end of the day, those are types of personalities

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that if that doesn't get fixed. will run into

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those same problems. The lack of self -love,

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just being a doormat, people walking all of them,

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taking advantage of them, and then more insecurity

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than stems from that, right? And it's hard though,

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right? When you're raising kids. Oh, it's a totally

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different ball game. And I honestly wish I could

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go back and redo it with my first two kids. My

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third child, I have done everything differently

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and it shows. Because I do want a young man that

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is, strong enough and has the courage enough

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to say, I'm not okay with this because that's

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what we need in the world to have a positive

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impact. And those are the people that are going

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to change the world. They're going to be the

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leaders. And when it comes to people pleasing,

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people only do that because it serves a purpose.

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People wouldn't do it if they weren't getting

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something out of it. And what most people are

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gaining out of it is they want to be liked. Very

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much so. And I can see that with teens. But also,

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if we're allowing kids to communicate why they

00:14:36.509 --> 00:14:38.870
feel a certain way, that creates a completely

00:14:38.870 --> 00:14:41.169
different conversation. But when I work with

00:14:41.169 --> 00:14:43.450
a lot of adults that are people pleasers in relationships

00:14:43.450 --> 00:14:46.250
and they're miserable or just different situations,

00:14:46.610 --> 00:14:53.320
they say, well, it's just easier this way. They

00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:56.759
really are wanting to just be liked. And they're

00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.919
going to continue to get the same result, which

00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:02.840
is unhappiness. And in the moment, boundaries

00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:08.379
or speaking up for what you believe or just even

00:15:08.379 --> 00:15:11.139
communicating how you feel, it doesn't. feel

00:15:11.139 --> 00:15:13.440
really great in the beginning when you're not

00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.279
used to it. But every time you do, it speaks

00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.879
to your soul and you become more empowered and

00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.080
you become stronger. And it's just another form

00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.059
of self -love being able to choose you over being

00:15:28.059 --> 00:15:30.879
liked. Yeah. You know, one of the things that

00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:32.580
I think you said that was interesting as well,

00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:36.120
which is that when you were 18 and you were kind

00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:37.600
of going through that, trying to figure life

00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:41.019
out that you didn't have and hadn't had um adult

00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:43.120
influences in your life that you could go to

00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.679
right i think really what it highlights for me

00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:49.120
is something that we've just as a society really

00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:50.519
gotten away from which we used to do all the

00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.360
time which is kids are raised by a community

00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:55.559
right you know when when kids are are getting

00:15:57.099 --> 00:15:59.460
before all this technology, before they could

00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:01.840
just dive into a phone or a tablet or anything

00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.039
like that, that really the idea was they're raised

00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.379
by the tribe, right? That's the way we always

00:16:06.379 --> 00:16:07.820
used to be. The history of man was that way.

00:16:07.899 --> 00:16:10.419
Kids are raised by a tribe that people, other

00:16:10.419 --> 00:16:12.740
adults step in and help out. And we've gotten

00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:15.039
away from that a little bit. And I think the

00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.340
more positive adult influences that can be out

00:16:18.340 --> 00:16:21.370
there for kids so that they do. have somewhere

00:16:21.370 --> 00:16:24.190
they could go in those hard times is really helpful.

00:16:24.269 --> 00:16:27.129
I would guess that you've probably found the

00:16:27.129 --> 00:16:30.809
ability to be that adult influence for some kids,

00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:32.750
even if they're not your own. What's that been

00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:34.350
like? What's that experience been like in helping

00:16:34.350 --> 00:16:36.470
some of these kids actually have an adult influence

00:16:36.470 --> 00:16:40.570
that's positive? It's been amazing. And it's

00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:45.450
tricky at the same time because I'm a parent

00:16:45.450 --> 00:16:50.889
and I get it. And I also have helped teens and

00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:55.210
young adults, a lot of them. And when I'm talking

00:16:55.210 --> 00:17:00.649
to teens, there is so much that they carry and

00:17:00.649 --> 00:17:04.430
internalize and their parents have zero idea.

00:17:05.250 --> 00:17:12.210
And so I think the bigger problem is just that

00:17:12.210 --> 00:17:16.029
parents are so busy. Sure. And they're working

00:17:16.029 --> 00:17:19.890
a lot. people have had to go back to work that

00:17:19.890 --> 00:17:22.869
typically might be staying at home. And we've

00:17:22.869 --> 00:17:26.269
got constant, you know, flood of information

00:17:26.269 --> 00:17:29.069
being thrown at us all the time through TV and

00:17:29.069 --> 00:17:30.930
social media and our phones. And there's just

00:17:30.930 --> 00:17:36.349
so much distraction for our kids and teens, just

00:17:36.349 --> 00:17:42.130
all of us. I'm really seeing a huge lack of connection

00:17:42.130 --> 00:17:48.380
with kids, teens, and their parents. And They're

00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:53.039
suffering. I mean, kids are getting younger and

00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:55.119
younger when it comes to self -harm and suicidal

00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:58.660
ideation. And I've worked with some of those

00:17:58.660 --> 00:18:04.019
kids. And the biggest problem that I hear is

00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.420
that they don't have one trusted adult in their

00:18:07.420 --> 00:18:10.339
life that they feel like they can turn to. And

00:18:10.339 --> 00:18:13.440
so I have really tried to be that trusted adult

00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:20.880
that I didn't have. And so more than ever, it's

00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.140
so important to have tricky conversations with

00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:26.779
kids, even if you're not perfect at it. Just

00:18:26.779 --> 00:18:31.019
how are you feeling? How are you really doing?

00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:33.559
How are friends? And don't settle with fine or

00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.539
okay. And keep asking those questions and try

00:18:37.539 --> 00:18:40.519
to create that deeper connection because kids

00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.190
want it. Even if they're not great at communicating

00:18:43.190 --> 00:18:46.170
back, they just want to feel like they do have

00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:49.109
one trusted adult in their life. And it's different

00:18:49.109 --> 00:18:51.990
with parents because kids worry that they might

00:18:51.990 --> 00:18:53.769
have a consequence attached to what they share.

00:18:53.869 --> 00:18:57.609
For sure. And so keeping that poker face and

00:18:57.609 --> 00:19:01.269
letting your kids know that you love them no

00:19:01.269 --> 00:19:07.589
matter what is huge. Yeah. How do we create these

00:19:07.589 --> 00:19:12.009
safe? spaces safe communities for kids to be

00:19:12.009 --> 00:19:13.769
able to have those communications like how do

00:19:13.769 --> 00:19:17.930
we do that I think it's taking time out of our

00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:21.250
busy lives whether you're a football coach or

00:19:21.250 --> 00:19:25.869
you're a counselor or you are a teacher or you're

00:19:25.869 --> 00:19:27.609
in the neighborhood you go to the same church

00:19:27.609 --> 00:19:32.670
your parents any any family taking the time to

00:19:32.670 --> 00:19:36.240
ask build those connections by Asking questions

00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.799
and commenting on even what they're wearing to

00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.039
start simple conversations and really getting

00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.500
to know kids in our community. And just asking

00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:48.599
them what they like to do and showing a genuine

00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:52.259
interest in them. Otherwise, they just look at

00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:55.140
you like, oh, yeah, you're just someone else.

00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.019
Or you're just saying that because you're my

00:19:57.019 --> 00:20:02.240
dad. And it's really that simple. Making eye

00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:07.750
contact. Making eye contact and just having those

00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:10.130
genuine conversations, act genuinely interested

00:20:10.130 --> 00:20:14.630
in our youth. It goes so far. It has with me.

00:20:14.789 --> 00:20:19.069
Like I have worked with teens that have come

00:20:19.069 --> 00:20:21.470
back, have invited me to their weddings, all

00:20:21.470 --> 00:20:25.369
sorts of things because I simply took time to

00:20:25.369 --> 00:20:29.789
get to know them. Yeah. You know, I think we're

00:20:29.789 --> 00:20:33.640
in Utah, obviously, very religious state. Regardless

00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.839
of what the religion is, I do think that when

00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:39.640
there are youth groups as part of those, it naturally

00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:41.920
comes up where you can have adult leaders where

00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.640
you can have a really positive influence. Just

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.279
last week, my two boys are in a youth group,

00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:50.140
and I had the opportunity to go on a campout

00:20:50.140 --> 00:20:54.039
with them. It was a fun experience because, first

00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:56.900
off, it was terrible. It was heat. It was southern

00:20:56.900 --> 00:20:59.079
Utah. It was 103 degrees out. I had to sleep

00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.440
in a tent, which I haven't for a long time. We

00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.799
had no reception. And the boys weren't allowed

00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:06.500
to bring any electronic devices at all. So the

00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:08.420
leaders, we could. Obviously, we're adults, so

00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:10.400
we can. It didn't matter. I had no reception.

00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:13.779
And so because I didn't, I didn't have my phone

00:21:13.779 --> 00:21:16.980
with me ever. And I started to experience a little

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:18.279
bit of what you're talking about, right? When

00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.460
I didn't, when I would sit down. A lot of times

00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:22.700
I was like, oh, I'm just going to go, you know,

00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:24.079
check ESPN or something is what I would normally

00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:26.019
do or go check my work email or whatever. But

00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:27.619
I didn't have that. And so what did I end up

00:21:27.619 --> 00:21:29.640
doing? I ended up asking questions to more of

00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:31.740
the young men, to more of the boys. Like, hey,

00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:33.680
tell me about this sports. Hey, you were in wrestling.

00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.079
Hey, and you placed in state. Tell me about that.

00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:37.480
Like, what was that experience like? Oh, that's

00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:38.680
so cool. Like, what are you going to do now with

00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:39.900
that? Oh, you're going to go to college and do

00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:41.920
that? Oh, okay. You're going to go serve a mission

00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:45.420
or whatever it is. And it's that connection opportunity

00:21:45.420 --> 00:21:47.900
that I think with technology we're passing up

00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:50.839
too often. Yeah. Yep. That when we are in those

00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.079
moments, we got to take advantage of them. Put

00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.319
the phone away, put the phone down, actually

00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.440
ask the questions exactly like you just said.

00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:58.759
I think it was really insightful what you said,

00:21:58.779 --> 00:22:00.759
right? Just asking those questions, being genuinely

00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:02.940
interested, much like building relationships

00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:04.859
with adults. Like it's the same thing with kids.

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:07.059
Just got to be interested. Because everything

00:22:07.059 --> 00:22:10.960
that you do leaves a mark. And so if that...

00:22:11.619 --> 00:22:14.000
that kid's in trouble or he's struggling and

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:16.480
he's too scared to go to his parents, you might

00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.579
be one of the top three to five people that he

00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:21.000
knows he can reach out to because you took the

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:22.880
time to make that connection. It goes a long

00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.700
way. Yeah, it does. And then the same thing,

00:22:25.779 --> 00:22:27.059
obviously, as we're talking about, I mean, obviously

00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:28.960
applies to adult relationships as well. Like

00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:32.559
creating those connections, asking those questions,

00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:35.220
I think is really helpful for us just to have

00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:37.400
more connection in our lives. And when we do,

00:22:37.579 --> 00:22:41.069
I do think that helps. We all do like to be liked,

00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:43.990
but we can be liked in ways that are genuine

00:22:43.990 --> 00:22:45.690
because we create genuine connections. It doesn't

00:22:45.690 --> 00:22:47.609
have to be because we're people pleasers. It

00:22:47.609 --> 00:22:50.529
can be because we do have boundaries and we use

00:22:50.529 --> 00:22:52.609
those boundaries to create better connection.

00:22:53.329 --> 00:22:55.329
Something I heard a therapist say recently, which

00:22:55.329 --> 00:22:57.210
is that's the idea of boundaries. Boundaries

00:22:57.210 --> 00:22:59.930
isn't to make less connection. It's actually

00:22:59.930 --> 00:23:02.750
to have better connections with the right guardrails

00:23:02.750 --> 00:23:05.009
in place. So those connections can be good and

00:23:05.009 --> 00:23:08.210
solid. So when we talk about this idea of like,

00:23:09.619 --> 00:23:11.720
self -love and kind of understanding and working

00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:13.400
on ourselves a little bit more. I want to kind

00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:15.940
of walk down that path a little bit. Where did

00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:17.839
that come from for you? So as you kind of experienced

00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.200
this, getting married too young, having to overcome

00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:22.420
some people -policing stuff and start working

00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:25.039
on yourself, when did you start really working

00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:26.900
on yourself? And how did you see that start to

00:23:26.900 --> 00:23:32.900
evolve? I have been studying myself for over

00:23:32.900 --> 00:23:37.400
10 years now because I was pretty sick of suffering.

00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:43.119
I was sick of not understanding other people's

00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.160
behavior, too, and how it was impacting me. And

00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:50.940
so really just in an effort to understand my

00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:54.259
life, because I think once we understand our

00:23:54.259 --> 00:23:57.160
life experiences and ourselves, then we don't

00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.180
feel so out of control or like instantly think

00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:03.740
something must be wrong with me. And so for me,

00:24:03.859 --> 00:24:08.380
it really began. a year or two before I got divorced

00:24:08.380 --> 00:24:12.799
because I realized, okay, I don't even dare communicate

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:15.319
in my marriage. And that's not a him problem.

00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:19.859
That's a me problem. And so it kind of started

00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:24.759
there at first, but then, I mean, when you get

00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:28.279
married really young and you've never not had

00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:33.190
kids, you really, I really. didn't take the time

00:24:33.190 --> 00:24:36.890
to know who I was, what I wanted. My life was

00:24:36.890 --> 00:24:41.369
basically defined by, at the time, where my standing

00:24:41.369 --> 00:24:44.490
was in the church that I belonged to, how big

00:24:44.490 --> 00:24:47.109
my house was, what car I drove, and how good

00:24:47.109 --> 00:24:51.210
of meals I cooked. And so when I got thrown back

00:24:51.210 --> 00:24:53.349
out into the dating world and people would ask

00:24:53.349 --> 00:24:57.170
me, what do you like to do? I couldn't even say

00:24:57.170 --> 00:25:02.759
anything because I had abandoned myself. So that

00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:05.519
was part, that was a stepping stone in my journey.

00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:09.940
And little by little, I discovered who I was

00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:12.579
and what I wanted and what personally brought

00:25:12.579 --> 00:25:18.680
me joy. And I think with anything, like I mentioned

00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:23.259
before, I lost my first grandchild. And oftentimes

00:25:23.259 --> 00:25:25.579
with those types of challenges, it really makes

00:25:25.579 --> 00:25:30.039
you take a look at yourself. And you kind of

00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:34.579
have to when you experience a great degree of

00:25:34.579 --> 00:25:37.799
trauma like that, because you're back in that

00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.420
survival mode of like, oh my gosh, like, how

00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:45.579
do I be okay again? And so I would say about

00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:49.240
four years ago, it really threw me into this

00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:55.819
deep dive of what do I genuinely believe? What

00:25:55.819 --> 00:25:58.720
do my spiritual practices look like? Meditation

00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:03.319
and sound baths. And what do I really like to

00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:05.839
do? And what can I bring to the world? And what

00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:10.259
is my purpose? And I found all of that through

00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:14.460
that hard experience. Because I realized that

00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:16.599
the things that I have been through in my life

00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:20.359
were just stepping stones to me discovering who

00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:24.579
I am so that I can help other people. Take me

00:26:24.579 --> 00:26:27.440
back to this experience, if you don't mind, of

00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.859
losing a grandchild. Yeah. What kind of walk

00:26:30.859 --> 00:26:36.099
us through, you know, how old, who was your child

00:26:36.099 --> 00:26:38.359
that had that grandchild and then kind of what

00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:40.740
happened? Yeah. So it was my oldest daughter.

00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.480
It was her first child. And she was in her early

00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:48.420
20s. And I mean, we just absolutely adored him.

00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:53.960
He, Zuri. Zuri, he was the center of our world.

00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:59.119
It was so fun to babysit. Oh my goodness. But

00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:03.380
about seven months in, he was seven months old.

00:27:03.460 --> 00:27:08.559
She simply took him to a doctor's visit and they

00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:14.400
told her that he had a bug. And about six days

00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:16.839
later, he passed away in primary children's due

00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:19.200
to bacterial meningitis, and they still don't

00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.299
know how he got it. It was a rare strain. And

00:27:22.299 --> 00:27:25.759
there are lots of details that go into that story.

00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.680
A lot of things that are unknown, a lot of things

00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:34.940
that happened in that entire, that little nutshell

00:27:34.940 --> 00:27:41.019
of the experience that I just shared. I think

00:27:41.019 --> 00:27:44.240
what was the hardest thing about all of that

00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.759
is it was a different type of grief and trauma

00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:49.980
than I'd personally ever experienced. And I've

00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:53.779
had a lot of that. And I would always say, you

00:27:53.779 --> 00:27:55.579
know what, I've experienced just about a bit

00:27:55.579 --> 00:27:58.259
of everything to some degree, but I hope I never

00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:00.160
have to experience losing a child because that

00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:04.220
would be the worst. And to watch. To be so close

00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:07.339
to him and have him suddenly and tragically pass

00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:09.099
away after them saying, oh, it's just a bug,

00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:14.579
go home, come back if he has a fever. To go through

00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:17.779
that, but then watch my daughter go through it,

00:28:17.859 --> 00:28:22.519
it was so extremely painful because I feel like

00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:27.119
I always knew what to do or how to find answers

00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:29.920
if I didn't know what to do or how to find support.

00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:35.420
That's really why I became trauma informed because

00:28:35.420 --> 00:28:40.180
I did not understand grief and how we all grieve

00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:43.240
differently. And I was taking it very personally

00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:45.740
in the beginning. And I didn't even understand

00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:49.880
my own behavior. Like one day I'm super happy.

00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:52.960
The next day I like can't stop crying. And so

00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.839
that whole experience. was a complete nightmare.

00:28:58.420 --> 00:29:01.960
And I just can't imagine how she must have felt

00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:06.619
because I know how greatly I was grieving and

00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:10.400
how traumatic it was for me. So I cannot even

00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.779
begin to imagine how she must feel and what she's

00:29:13.779 --> 00:29:17.900
gone through. And still today, I look back and

00:29:17.900 --> 00:29:20.279
I'm like, what could I have done better? And

00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:24.569
it's just really hard because I still today,

00:29:24.670 --> 00:29:26.730
I'm like, okay, am I doing the right thing? And

00:29:26.730 --> 00:29:31.609
I think that's just, that's a huge part of my

00:29:31.609 --> 00:29:34.170
work and how I help people being trauma informed

00:29:34.170 --> 00:29:37.150
because we can't judge people based off of how

00:29:37.150 --> 00:29:43.049
they decide to process grief. And that can look

00:29:43.049 --> 00:29:45.490
a lot of different ways, whether it's divorce

00:29:45.490 --> 00:29:51.559
or death. And so trauma. Shows up differently

00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:56.500
in everyone and everyone can exhibit different

00:29:56.500 --> 00:29:58.660
behavior. Some people will pull away and some

00:29:58.660 --> 00:30:00.740
people want to be around people all of the time.

00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:06.640
And trauma is a very complicated thing. And I

00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:11.940
was really surprised by how judgmental some people

00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:16.160
have been about how others. process grief and

00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.579
trauma. And if I could say anything speaking

00:30:19.579 --> 00:30:23.559
to that is that sometimes you don't need to say

00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.799
anything when somebody is grieving or hurting.

00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.980
Your presence is your superpower in that moment.

00:30:31.099 --> 00:30:34.500
And that we need to really release judgment when

00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:38.279
it comes to people that have experienced what

00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:41.759
I call trauma with a big T, like big life things

00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:47.539
that have happened. Um, really empathy can look

00:30:47.539 --> 00:30:49.740
like you just being there and you not needing

00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:53.599
to say the right thing, or you might not even

00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.200
know what to do, but sometimes it's okay to ask

00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:59.259
the other person, how can I show up for you?

00:30:59.420 --> 00:31:01.660
I love you. And I want to be here for you. What

00:31:01.660 --> 00:31:03.400
does that look like for you in the moment? Because

00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:09.029
I felt so helpless and, um, And I think it's

00:31:09.029 --> 00:31:11.250
important that when someone is processing something

00:31:11.250 --> 00:31:15.609
to take the ego out of it and not take their

00:31:15.609 --> 00:31:20.670
actions personally. It's not about you. And put

00:31:20.670 --> 00:31:25.609
your ego on the shelf and put your – always give

00:31:25.609 --> 00:31:27.890
someone the most generous assumption and try

00:31:27.890 --> 00:31:31.549
to meet them at their feelings. You know, when

00:31:31.549 --> 00:31:33.470
you're kind of going through this experience,

00:31:33.690 --> 00:31:39.829
I think – You're faced with an interesting dichotomy

00:31:39.829 --> 00:31:42.670
here, which is, one, you've got to grieve the

00:31:42.670 --> 00:31:45.809
loss of your grandbaby. And then on the other

00:31:45.809 --> 00:31:47.410
hand, you're trying to support your daughter.

00:31:48.509 --> 00:31:50.869
What was that like for you to try to navigate

00:31:50.869 --> 00:31:54.190
those two seemingly opposite things at times?

00:31:54.329 --> 00:31:59.250
A nightmare. Because she grieves differently

00:31:59.250 --> 00:32:02.490
than I do. And so it was really confusing for

00:32:02.490 --> 00:32:10.630
me. The way I grieve is I wanted people to show

00:32:10.630 --> 00:32:12.369
up for me, but I didn't always want to talk about

00:32:12.369 --> 00:32:16.990
it. But the way that I try to be there for others

00:32:16.990 --> 00:32:18.710
is like, I want to be there for them all the

00:32:18.710 --> 00:32:20.250
time. Let's talk about this. What can I do? And

00:32:20.250 --> 00:32:26.089
like in their space. And for someone that, and

00:32:26.089 --> 00:32:30.369
I can't say how she feels that she grieves, but.

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:33.539
If you are the type of person that typically

00:32:33.539 --> 00:32:35.579
pulls away or shuts down and you don't want to

00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:38.319
be around other people, for someone like me,

00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:44.000
it's like, get out of my face, mom or whoever,

00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.299
and just leave me alone and let me process this

00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:50.740
on my own. But when you're a parent or you're

00:32:50.740 --> 00:32:52.740
another family member or friend and you're seeing

00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:55.279
someone else grieve, you want to do something

00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.779
to help, but you don't always have the answers.

00:32:59.799 --> 00:33:04.799
I felt like it was just a mess because I really

00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.779
was in survival mode myself. And when you are

00:33:07.779 --> 00:33:12.339
in survival mode, you're, I mean, if you look

00:33:12.339 --> 00:33:14.180
at the psychology of things, you're in fight

00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:19.059
or flight. You're in your animalistic part of

00:33:19.059 --> 00:33:21.240
your brain. You're not even in the front part

00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.079
of your brain, which is the thinking part of

00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:25.119
your brain. You can't problem solve. You can't

00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:29.259
make decisions. And so I was. planning a funeral

00:33:29.259 --> 00:33:32.599
and doing all these things by myself while also

00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:35.500
not being okay, while also knowing she's suffering

00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:37.859
and not knowing what to do. And it just felt

00:33:37.859 --> 00:33:42.059
like trying to get through each day, like just

00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:44.380
take it day by day, minute by minute sometimes,

00:33:44.539 --> 00:33:48.900
and just draw on my own support system I had

00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:51.740
at the time and definitely therapy, a lot of

00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:55.420
therapy. Did you have, at that time, did you

00:33:55.420 --> 00:33:58.609
have other? adults that you could rely on to

00:33:58.609 --> 00:34:00.849
provide you support? Yeah, I had a lot of great

00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:05.230
girlfriends and family members that it's complicated

00:34:05.230 --> 00:34:09.550
because people that love you, they want to show

00:34:09.550 --> 00:34:10.909
up for you, but they also don't know what to

00:34:10.909 --> 00:34:12.670
say and they don't know what to do. And it's

00:34:12.670 --> 00:34:15.110
just awkward. And sometimes people are extremely

00:34:15.110 --> 00:34:17.730
offensive when they're just trying to say the

00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:20.130
right thing or they're trying to validate your

00:34:20.130 --> 00:34:26.269
feelings. And so especially online, they Once

00:34:26.269 --> 00:34:28.250
people kind of saw this, what our family was

00:34:28.250 --> 00:34:31.670
going through and this little viral video, there

00:34:31.670 --> 00:34:33.809
were a lot of comments made to my daughter that

00:34:33.809 --> 00:34:36.530
were pretty offensive. But I know that it was

00:34:36.530 --> 00:34:38.329
people trying to be like, oh, hey, this happened

00:34:38.329 --> 00:34:41.690
to me too. And I'm trying to validate her experience

00:34:41.690 --> 00:34:45.590
in that way. Besides just kind of being there

00:34:45.590 --> 00:34:47.829
for somebody, what did you find was the most

00:34:47.829 --> 00:34:51.369
helpful thing that people said? And then I'm

00:34:51.369 --> 00:34:53.940
also interested, what was the most? hurtful thing

00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:55.599
that maybe people said, even if they were well

00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:58.420
-intended? I think the most helpful thing that

00:34:58.420 --> 00:35:01.420
people did was just ask how they can help. Just

00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:04.699
ask. Like, if you don't know, just ask and just

00:35:04.699 --> 00:35:07.980
be there. Like, in that moment, I didn't even

00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:12.920
know what I needed. And I think the most offensive

00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:14.960
things that you can say to people that are grieving,

00:35:15.139 --> 00:35:18.260
regardless of the type of grief, is, especially

00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:26.050
with death, you'll see them again one day. Or

00:35:26.050 --> 00:35:29.909
everything happens for a reason. Another one

00:35:29.909 --> 00:35:34.789
is invalidating someone's experiences by sharing

00:35:34.789 --> 00:35:37.289
your own. And what that looked like in her case

00:35:37.289 --> 00:35:40.809
was, oh, yeah, I had a miscarriage and it was

00:35:40.809 --> 00:35:45.389
so sad. It's like she was actually raising this

00:35:45.389 --> 00:35:50.949
child. He had a personality. And so I think.

00:35:53.989 --> 00:35:56.489
When sympathy is very different than empathy,

00:35:56.630 --> 00:35:59.110
empathy is like you're sitting with them in their

00:35:59.110 --> 00:36:00.909
feelings, even if you don't understand them.

00:36:01.710 --> 00:36:05.510
And sympathy is kind of like trying to find the

00:36:05.510 --> 00:36:08.650
silver lining when that's not what the person

00:36:08.650 --> 00:36:10.969
needs in that moment or it's toxic positivity.

00:36:11.449 --> 00:36:16.590
So, oh, you'll be OK. You'll be fine. Just here.

00:36:16.989 --> 00:36:19.769
Let's go get a drink. And just really trying

00:36:19.769 --> 00:36:23.420
to I can see how, you know. Not everybody knows

00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:25.500
how to deal with someone grieving. And so that's

00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:28.719
their way of like trying to help, but it's really

00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:31.260
invalidating. And like I said, sometimes we just

00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:35.820
need to sit with people and acknowledge, I don't

00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:37.980
know even what to say or do, but I'm here and

00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:41.960
I love you. And I can't imagine what you must

00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:44.659
be going through right now. Yeah. Your thought

00:36:44.659 --> 00:36:46.920
occurs to me. One of the things you said is that

00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:49.139
just, you know, letting them know like, hey,

00:36:49.219 --> 00:36:51.699
what can I do to help? And I think if I could

00:36:51.699 --> 00:36:54.079
add to that, and I'd love your take on it, maybe

00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:55.460
also adding like, you know, what can I do to

00:36:55.460 --> 00:36:58.360
help? And if it's nothing, that's okay. If it's

00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.500
just be here with you, that's okay. And if it's

00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:02.420
that you just need to be alone, that's okay too.

00:37:03.139 --> 00:37:05.840
Because I think sometimes... And what I've heard,

00:37:05.860 --> 00:37:07.000
the feedback that I've heard from other people

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.340
is when everybody's asking what they can do,

00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:10.579
it's like, I don't know, that it puts a burden

00:37:10.579 --> 00:37:12.380
on me to try to figure out what you can do to

00:37:12.380 --> 00:37:13.840
help. And I don't know what you can do to help,

00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:16.940
right? Like, I just need to be alone or I just

00:37:16.940 --> 00:37:18.840
need, you know, maybe I just need you just to

00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:20.780
be here and not, you know, pepper me with questions.

00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:26.960
And I do think that like being present with somebody,

00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:29.760
you've said a number of times, I think it's just,

00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:31.579
it really hits home for me. I think it's exactly

00:37:31.579 --> 00:37:34.179
right. I think sometimes just being there. Yeah.

00:37:34.570 --> 00:37:36.969
We don't have the right things to say. Nobody

00:37:36.969 --> 00:37:38.710
knows exactly the perfect thing to say. We don't

00:37:38.710 --> 00:37:42.210
know. We can all try. We try imperfectly. Sometimes

00:37:42.210 --> 00:37:45.630
it's just being there. Absolutely. And that can

00:37:45.630 --> 00:37:51.110
carry a lot. A lot of impact is having that person

00:37:51.110 --> 00:37:53.230
know that you're there. That you're not judging.

00:37:53.829 --> 00:37:55.449
You're not judging them for anything. That they're

00:37:55.449 --> 00:37:57.389
experiencing the way that they experience grief.

00:37:57.510 --> 00:37:59.269
Like you talked about. Let them experience it

00:37:59.269 --> 00:38:00.550
the way they need to. Just be there for them.

00:38:01.269 --> 00:38:04.599
When we talk as well about... Kind of the way

00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:07.860
that we work on things for ourselves, right?

00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:11.320
And the way that we can appeal back the layers

00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.280
of ourselves to understand ourselves better,

00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.400
which can then ultimately help us to process

00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.599
things like grief better, process the trauma

00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:22.340
we have better. You know, this is where we start

00:38:22.340 --> 00:38:25.150
talking about especially like marriages. and

00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:28.309
how people communicate and working on themselves.

00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:30.769
It's why we talked about doing The Incredibles,

00:38:30.769 --> 00:38:33.650
because it's such a good example for us to look

00:38:33.650 --> 00:38:36.050
through this lens. So I wrote down a couple of

00:38:36.050 --> 00:38:38.289
quotes from the movie that I kind of want to

00:38:38.289 --> 00:38:39.909
ask you about as well, some others from some

00:38:39.909 --> 00:38:43.570
people that we both done a lot of reading of,

00:38:43.590 --> 00:38:45.369
like John Gottman. But let me first take you

00:38:45.369 --> 00:38:49.409
to a quote from Helen Parr, who's Mrs. Incredible.

00:38:49.909 --> 00:38:52.880
And she's talking with Bob, right? And one of

00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:53.840
the things she says to him, I think was really

00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:55.780
interesting. She says, I love you, but if we're

00:38:55.780 --> 00:38:57.840
going to make this work, you've got to be more

00:38:57.840 --> 00:38:59.880
than Mr. Incredible. You know that, don't you?

00:39:00.579 --> 00:39:02.820
Because he had his whole identity wrapped up

00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:06.079
into being Mr. Incredible. And then when he couldn't,

00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:08.920
then suddenly he like falls apart, right? Loses

00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:12.139
his job. He's just depressed all the time. He

00:39:12.139 --> 00:39:15.159
has no idea who he is. You know, it's kind of

00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:17.130
sounding a little bit like. What you experienced,

00:39:17.269 --> 00:39:19.269
right? You're doing things for somebody else

00:39:19.269 --> 00:39:21.309
all the time. You don't really know who you are.

00:39:21.429 --> 00:39:24.690
And so he's kind of lost in these moments. And

00:39:24.690 --> 00:39:26.730
so how many times do you, what do you think it's

00:39:26.730 --> 00:39:28.289
like for people when they kind of find themselves

00:39:28.289 --> 00:39:31.010
in that experience of like, they thought that

00:39:31.010 --> 00:39:33.469
this was the thing like you had and then kind

00:39:33.469 --> 00:39:36.550
of realized like, oh, like being Mr. Incredible.

00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:38.719
Or being who everybody else wants me to be all

00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:41.019
the time is actually not it. That's not what's

00:39:41.019 --> 00:39:42.780
going to bring me connection in this life. Yeah.

00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:47.099
So my brain is going all different directions

00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:50.380
because when you're speaking to that, I'm just

00:39:50.380 --> 00:39:53.579
thinking about how actually men and women are

00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:58.420
so different. And that I think it's more about

00:39:58.420 --> 00:40:02.820
men and women understanding their differences.

00:40:03.739 --> 00:40:05.880
And being okay with that and trying to meet each

00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:10.159
other's needs over saying, hey, you need to change.

00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.900
Because control is not love. Authenticity is

00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:18.340
love. And so we need to be okay with the way

00:40:18.340 --> 00:40:22.519
our person is, you know, when we met them. And

00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:24.239
if we're not, because when you meet someone,

00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.199
you get the whole package. You get all their

00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.460
stuff. You get parts of their personality and

00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:34.750
habits that you might not like. You might choose

00:40:34.750 --> 00:40:37.309
to be with someone that works long hours, whatever

00:40:37.309 --> 00:40:40.750
it is. But if you choose that, changing your

00:40:40.750 --> 00:40:45.989
mind how many years later, that's not quite love.

00:40:46.329 --> 00:40:49.090
Because authenticity is letting somebody be who

00:40:49.090 --> 00:40:51.769
they are. So in the case of The Incredibles,

00:40:51.989 --> 00:40:55.969
he is like a lot of men I work with. And it's

00:40:55.969 --> 00:40:59.210
pretty true to science. What I've learned is

00:40:59.210 --> 00:41:05.480
for men, And what's most important to them is

00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:11.019
who they are and how they got there. Third, how

00:41:11.019 --> 00:41:13.159
much money they make. That's a big part of their

00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.679
identity. And they might not talk about it. They

00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:19.760
might not show it. But men pride themselves on

00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:22.139
that. A lot of the men that I work with. Women

00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:26.139
are so much more complicated. Men need way less.

00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:29.280
Women need way more. It's our biology. And that's

00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:36.460
okay. And so with men, they want to be appreciated

00:41:36.460 --> 00:41:40.800
and respected. They want physical intimacy. Women

00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.519
are very emotional, and they need their emotional

00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:49.139
needs met. And so when you have two people in

00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:53.130
a marriage, that are biologically completely

00:41:53.130 --> 00:41:56.909
different, and they come with all their own life

00:41:56.909 --> 00:42:00.210
experiences and their lens that they view the

00:42:00.210 --> 00:42:03.530
world through, it's a wonder that any marriages

00:42:03.530 --> 00:42:06.289
even last if you think about it that way. And

00:42:06.289 --> 00:42:09.750
completely different communication styles sometimes

00:42:09.750 --> 00:42:12.949
in the way they handle conflict resolution. And

00:42:12.949 --> 00:42:15.769
so in the case of The Incredibles, you have this

00:42:15.769 --> 00:42:18.389
guy that's like doing everything that he thought

00:42:18.389 --> 00:42:21.800
he was supposed to do. And he's out there saving

00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:24.579
people. Some like the way that kind of comes

00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:26.940
to a head where suddenly all the supers can't

00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:29.039
be out there anymore is because some guy jumps

00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:31.619
off a building to his death and he saves the

00:42:31.619 --> 00:42:34.139
guy. Yeah. He saves his life and then gets sued.

00:42:34.219 --> 00:42:37.000
Right. So, yeah, knock on attorneys. But yeah,

00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.400
so he goes from this zone of doing what he thinks

00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.420
is right, saving people's lives, literally saving

00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:44.920
people's lives to all of that is stripped away.

00:42:45.019 --> 00:42:46.699
And he can't do any of that anymore. Completely

00:42:46.699 --> 00:42:49.360
loses that part of himself. Yeah. His identity.

00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:54.539
And so I have worked with hundreds of men and

00:42:54.539 --> 00:42:57.679
it's seriously the same story about why their

00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:01.280
relationships or marriages are not working. And

00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:06.679
a lot of times it's not working because they

00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.920
don't feel appreciated and respected, but then

00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.860
their wife or partner isn't getting her. Needs

00:43:13.860 --> 00:43:16.059
met either. And so he's over here going, but

00:43:16.059 --> 00:43:18.380
I protect and I provide for my family. It's exactly

00:43:18.380 --> 00:43:21.019
what she wanted. And I've given them this beautiful

00:43:21.019 --> 00:43:24.460
life. What more could she ask for? And she's

00:43:24.460 --> 00:43:26.420
over here going, well, we never spend time together

00:43:26.420 --> 00:43:30.300
and there's no emotional intimacy. And so both

00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:32.500
people are hurting and not having their needs

00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:34.920
met. And they're just both different. And they're

00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:36.539
both thinking they're doing the right thing.

00:43:37.099 --> 00:43:43.030
And so in the case of. The Incredibles, it's

00:43:43.030 --> 00:43:46.550
just a lot like these men that I work with. And

00:43:46.550 --> 00:43:49.809
sometimes even men, I don't know if you have

00:43:49.809 --> 00:43:51.909
ever read the book Man's Search for Purpose,

00:43:52.010 --> 00:43:56.349
but a lot of times when men get older, if they

00:43:56.349 --> 00:43:58.610
happen to be divorced, their kids start to grow

00:43:58.610 --> 00:44:01.710
up and leave the house. They really struggle

00:44:01.710 --> 00:44:06.190
because if they are divorced and they're not

00:44:06.190 --> 00:44:08.840
in a relationship, they don't. feel like they

00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:12.460
have someone to protect and provide for and their

00:44:12.460 --> 00:44:15.079
kids have maybe moved on and they're older and

00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:17.239
they have their own lives and so a lot of men

00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:19.619
at that time in life kind of struggle because

00:44:19.619 --> 00:44:22.900
they're like what's my purpose like i'm inherently

00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:25.800
like i love to protect and provide for my family

00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:27.599
and that's a huge part of my identity what do

00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:31.559
i do now yeah and so i work with men and that

00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:33.920
life transition as well and it all just kind

00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:37.920
of ties together and makes sense because Just

00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.679
like Mr. Incredible, he had an identity. And

00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:42.820
if it's stripped away, he's like, well, who am

00:44:42.820 --> 00:44:47.579
I? And I think the biggest thing about that movie

00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:52.880
that I love is something that I think everybody

00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.400
deals with, which is sometimes along the way,

00:44:56.460 --> 00:45:03.519
we forget that we're a team. That it's not. He

00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:07.139
was kind of doing secret missions on the side,

00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:11.400
and she's got her thing. And then before you

00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.760
know it, the marriage is falling apart. And the

00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:21.139
problem is never each other. It should be you

00:45:21.139 --> 00:45:23.880
two against the problem, not you two against

00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.440
each other. And that's why I think this is a

00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:28.480
great example for that. Yeah, I think you're

00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.019
so split on here, and there's so many things

00:45:31.019 --> 00:45:33.500
I want to dive into with that. One is about this

00:45:33.500 --> 00:45:38.500
idea of their Mr. and Mrs. Incredibles relationship

00:45:38.500 --> 00:45:40.039
with each other and how it deteriorates and how

00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:42.320
that is a type for the things that we do wrong.

00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:45.119
And part of it is this quote from John Gottman

00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:49.619
that I love where he said, Trust is built in

00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:52.420
very small moments, which I call sliding door

00:45:52.420 --> 00:45:55.059
moments. In any interaction, there's a possibility

00:45:55.059 --> 00:45:57.679
of connecting with your partner or turning away

00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:01.360
from your partner. One such moment is not important,

00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:04.340
but if you're always choosing to turn away, then

00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:07.059
trust erodes in a relationship very gradually,

00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:09.800
very slowly, right? Where a lot of times we'll

00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:12.360
hear this idea of like, okay, well, I'm sitting

00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:14.579
here providing, I'm doing all these things, and

00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:17.219
then you turn around a few years later, and then

00:46:17.219 --> 00:46:19.260
you're not communicating at all, and neither

00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:21.780
partner is neither being that, and it's not communicating,

00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:24.800
and it's built on all these times of just...

00:46:24.989 --> 00:46:26.710
turning away when those opportunities come up

00:46:26.710 --> 00:46:28.909
rather than turning to each other, right? The

00:46:28.909 --> 00:46:31.130
two of you against the problem. And so Mr. and

00:46:31.130 --> 00:46:32.789
Mrs. Credible, right? That's what they do. He's

00:46:32.789 --> 00:46:35.030
turning away from her doing a secret mission.

00:46:35.130 --> 00:46:37.550
She's turning away from him and, you know, trying

00:46:37.550 --> 00:46:39.550
to focus on them not using their superpowers

00:46:39.550 --> 00:46:41.349
and taking care of the kids. And they're just

00:46:41.349 --> 00:46:43.389
not communicating at all, right? They're not

00:46:43.389 --> 00:46:45.769
meeting in the middle. They're not encountering

00:46:45.769 --> 00:46:47.949
these problems. They're doing them totally separately.

00:46:49.010 --> 00:46:50.610
So I kind of want to get your take on that of

00:46:50.610 --> 00:46:53.019
like, building the trust in these relationships

00:46:53.019 --> 00:46:56.159
so that you actually turn to each other to encounter

00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:58.320
the problems. Yeah, there are a lot of ways to

00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.280
do that. And I think it's very situational, but

00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:03.559
I think it starts with creating safety around

00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:07.800
conversations that have to do with that. So if

00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:12.420
every time your partner comes to you, you get

00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:14.599
defensive when they want to bring up something,

00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:17.320
they're probably going to stop doing it. Or if

00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:20.650
on the flip side, when You approach them with

00:47:20.650 --> 00:47:24.389
some troubles that you're having about something.

00:47:24.469 --> 00:47:27.829
If you don't know how to communicate that as

00:47:27.829 --> 00:47:31.969
a loving truth teller, then your partner is not

00:47:31.969 --> 00:47:34.909
going to want to engage. And so I think trust

00:47:34.909 --> 00:47:37.650
first starts with being able to communicate.

00:47:39.230 --> 00:47:41.829
a loving, healthy way where both people feel

00:47:41.829 --> 00:47:43.730
seen and understood. You don't have to agree

00:47:43.730 --> 00:47:46.070
and you don't even have to completely understand

00:47:46.070 --> 00:47:49.369
the other person, but validate their feelings,

00:47:49.590 --> 00:47:53.150
even if you, or validate their experience of

00:47:53.150 --> 00:47:56.409
the situation, because you can see things differently,

00:47:56.489 --> 00:48:00.699
but validate their experience. And then. try

00:48:00.699 --> 00:48:03.300
to understand them and just get the conversation

00:48:03.300 --> 00:48:07.300
going because nothing can ever be resolved in

00:48:07.300 --> 00:48:10.480
a relationship if you can't first speak about

00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:14.400
it. Yeah. So I love that you went there because

00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.079
what I had written down next in my notes is for

00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:18.880
us to have you put on your coaching hat with

00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:22.880
Bob, Mr. Incredible, because so he's, he can't

00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.019
be a super anymore. Right. And so he's at this

00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:28.380
job that he hates and then he gets fired and

00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:32.500
then he doesn't tell Mrs. Incredible. It doesn't

00:48:32.500 --> 00:48:35.679
tell her. So let's say in this moment, Bob came

00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:38.719
to you. He's like, Cassie, I need some help.

00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:41.380
I need some coaching. What would you coach him

00:48:41.380 --> 00:48:45.119
to in those moments to help trying to work on

00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:48.099
himself and then also make sure he's building

00:48:48.099 --> 00:48:50.280
on positive communication and ability to communicate

00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:54.400
with his wife? Yeah. So I would do a lot of things

00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:57.650
with Bob. Good, good. So I would do a lot of

00:48:57.650 --> 00:49:02.050
things simultaneously. So I would have Bob really

00:49:02.050 --> 00:49:08.429
make a list of his qualities because I think

00:49:08.429 --> 00:49:13.489
sometimes when, if you've ever... encountered

00:49:13.489 --> 00:49:16.769
job loss or things like that, it can chip away

00:49:16.769 --> 00:49:20.889
at your self -worth. And I see it a lot too with

00:49:20.889 --> 00:49:24.730
men that have betrayal trauma. And I like to

00:49:24.730 --> 00:49:29.610
remind men of who they are because when you have

00:49:29.610 --> 00:49:33.949
crappy things happen, it's really easy to self

00:49:33.949 --> 00:49:38.090
-blame and it's really easy to tear yourself

00:49:38.090 --> 00:49:40.389
apart because you can control that. So people

00:49:40.389 --> 00:49:43.179
will just tell themselves all sorts of stories.

00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:45.980
I like to empower men by reminding them of who

00:49:45.980 --> 00:49:48.099
they are, not just their inherent qualities that

00:49:48.099 --> 00:49:51.139
they were born with, but the value that they've

00:49:51.139 --> 00:49:54.599
added to themselves along the way. I also like

00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.519
to challenge their core beliefs and challenge

00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.119
the narratives that they're telling themselves

00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:05.519
about a situation. And sometimes maybe in Bob's

00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:09.260
case, it would be oh, she's going to be so mad

00:50:09.260 --> 00:50:12.039
at me. She's going to want to leave me. I'm such

00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:14.760
a loser. I don't even have a job. I can't provide

00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:19.460
for my family. I suck, whatever it is. And I

00:50:19.460 --> 00:50:25.360
would challenge him on that and say, do you really,

00:50:25.500 --> 00:50:29.139
like, are you really going to get a divorce?

00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.519
Do you know that 100 % without a shadow of a

00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:34.539
doubt? Do you know that's what's going to happen?

00:50:35.019 --> 00:50:38.289
The answer is usually no. Or if someone says,

00:50:38.369 --> 00:50:41.949
oh, I think it might, I say, okay, what evidence

00:50:41.949 --> 00:50:45.050
do you have to support that? That thought is

00:50:45.050 --> 00:50:48.269
100 % true, that story that you're telling yourself.

00:50:48.630 --> 00:50:53.289
Usually it's not any evidence. And so a lot of

00:50:53.289 --> 00:50:57.210
times we get ourselves so worked up and so upset

00:50:57.210 --> 00:51:00.610
based off of a bunch of thoughts that aren't

00:51:00.610 --> 00:51:04.230
even true. And so that's one thing that... would

00:51:04.230 --> 00:51:06.110
do with Bob and that I do with all my clients

00:51:06.110 --> 00:51:08.929
is challenge the thoughts that you're thinking

00:51:08.929 --> 00:51:11.610
that are creating certain emotions that are leading

00:51:11.610 --> 00:51:15.010
you to spiral and just flounder and not know

00:51:15.010 --> 00:51:17.809
what to do. Because once we can control our inner

00:51:17.809 --> 00:51:20.269
world and our thoughts, we can control our outer

00:51:20.269 --> 00:51:24.610
world, including our relationships. And so I

00:51:24.610 --> 00:51:31.570
would also teach Bob to get out of that black

00:51:31.570 --> 00:51:34.730
and white thinking and that doomsday thinking

00:51:34.730 --> 00:51:40.210
that the worst thing will always happen. That's

00:51:40.210 --> 00:51:43.269
another way of challenging beliefs that I believe

00:51:43.269 --> 00:51:46.630
we always tend to assume the worst. And if we

00:51:46.630 --> 00:51:49.250
can really play through from beginning to end

00:51:49.250 --> 00:51:52.170
what might happen at the end of the day, we'll

00:51:52.170 --> 00:51:54.530
live. We'll still be alive. It's okay. We can

00:51:54.530 --> 00:51:57.050
do it. And so those are a few things I would

00:51:57.050 --> 00:52:01.590
start with. But yeah, Bob. Bob and Helen, there

00:52:01.590 --> 00:52:03.610
are lots of different directions that we could

00:52:03.610 --> 00:52:07.170
go with them. Yeah. And then they continue to

00:52:07.170 --> 00:52:10.030
evolve in this, which is why I think it's such

00:52:10.030 --> 00:52:13.090
an informative movie to watch for relationship

00:52:13.090 --> 00:52:15.750
dynamics and the way that things play out. A

00:52:15.750 --> 00:52:18.250
little bit later, after Bob goes on these secret

00:52:18.250 --> 00:52:20.650
missions, and then it kind of gets exposed, and

00:52:20.650 --> 00:52:23.510
then suddenly his family's trying to help, and

00:52:23.510 --> 00:52:27.610
it's looking bleak, right? Yeah. before they

00:52:27.610 --> 00:52:29.150
ended up being able to prevail. And when it's

00:52:29.150 --> 00:52:31.469
kind of looking bleak and he's talking with his

00:52:31.469 --> 00:52:34.230
wife, he just, he looks at her and he just says,

00:52:34.469 --> 00:52:38.869
I'm not, I'm not strong enough. And I think it's

00:52:38.869 --> 00:52:40.309
right in line with what you're talking about,

00:52:40.409 --> 00:52:44.130
where, you know, when his identity was, I'm protecting,

00:52:44.409 --> 00:52:47.690
I'm serving, I'm providing, that's now all taken

00:52:47.690 --> 00:52:51.909
away. I start to get that back, but because they

00:52:51.909 --> 00:52:55.369
haven't fully resolved their relationship. He

00:52:55.369 --> 00:52:58.150
was still hiding things. He was still not fully

00:52:58.150 --> 00:52:59.730
communicating with her and having that trust.

00:53:00.130 --> 00:53:02.429
Now he's feeling the culmination of like, it's

00:53:02.429 --> 00:53:04.110
too much. I can't do it. I'm not strong enough.

00:53:04.230 --> 00:53:07.590
I'm not strong enough. Yeah. And so what would

00:53:07.590 --> 00:53:10.050
be your advice then? So now he's gone through

00:53:10.050 --> 00:53:12.690
all this stuff. He's realizing that he actually

00:53:12.690 --> 00:53:14.670
does have a purpose, but he's feeling like he's

00:53:14.670 --> 00:53:16.489
not strong enough to be able to handle this situation.

00:53:16.869 --> 00:53:21.090
Yeah. What's really cool about that part and

00:53:21.090 --> 00:53:23.489
something great that Bob did that I want to make

00:53:23.489 --> 00:53:26.570
sure that I told him he was just excellent at

00:53:26.570 --> 00:53:30.150
is finally being transparent. Because I forgot

00:53:30.150 --> 00:53:32.670
to mention that a minute ago, transparency will

00:53:32.670 --> 00:53:36.489
always invite emotional intimacy, even if it

00:53:36.489 --> 00:53:39.989
feels scary. Always go with transparency over

00:53:39.989 --> 00:53:43.750
being comfortable. But along with transparency

00:53:43.750 --> 00:53:47.809
is when he was vulnerable. Vulnerability is.

00:53:48.219 --> 00:53:50.719
doesn't feel great either because vulnerability

00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:55.079
exposes you to possibly getting a reaction that

00:53:55.079 --> 00:54:01.260
might hurt or with some men feeling shamed for

00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:03.960
being vulnerable because a lot of men grew up

00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:09.940
with, you don't cry, suck it up. And so I would

00:54:09.940 --> 00:54:12.800
definitely compliment him and make sure that

00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:17.760
he Was able to acknowledge that he did the right

00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:21.960
thing. But moving forward after being vulnerable,

00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:29.280
I think it's not all on Bob anymore. It's on

00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:33.559
Helen. Sure. To thank him for being vulnerable

00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:39.119
and providing. Now it's her turn to provide a

00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:44.840
safe container. Yeah. For him to open up and

00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:47.480
then work together as a team, because it's not

00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:51.340
always a man that should do that. You also need

00:54:51.340 --> 00:54:54.239
to provide that as a woman. It can look differently

00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:58.500
and it can feel differently, but men need to

00:54:58.500 --> 00:55:01.579
feel safe too. Men need to feel validated too.

00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:04.719
They need to feel love. They need to feel compassion.

00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:09.099
And they need to know that when they're not 100%,

00:55:09.099 --> 00:55:11.840
well, that they don't even have to be 100 % all

00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:17.179
the time. That's not even realistic. Some days

00:55:17.179 --> 00:55:19.920
he might be 80 and she's 20. And other days she

00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:23.639
might be the 80 and he's the 20. And so I think

00:55:23.639 --> 00:55:28.159
now she needs to put on that hat of like, okay,

00:55:28.199 --> 00:55:32.179
thank you for sharing this with me. What do you

00:55:32.179 --> 00:55:34.219
need from me? How can I support you? How can

00:55:34.219 --> 00:55:36.280
we get through this? I love you. We've got this

00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:39.059
no matter what. And I think that's why a lot

00:55:39.059 --> 00:55:41.500
of people hesitate to be vulnerable or share,

00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:44.239
be transparent is because they're so worried

00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:46.900
that the other person is going to leave them.

00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:51.699
And in this case, like Helen could have, I don't

00:55:51.699 --> 00:55:53.420
even remember what she says, but she could have

00:55:53.420 --> 00:55:56.159
said all sorts of things to where he would shut

00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:59.500
down and spiral even more. Yeah. And instead,

00:55:59.940 --> 00:56:02.619
what Helen and then ultimately the kids do too

00:56:02.619 --> 00:56:04.920
is they all show up for him. Yeah. Right. And

00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:06.789
they're like, we're in this together. You know,

00:56:06.789 --> 00:56:08.889
and then suddenly they're taking on this huge

00:56:08.889 --> 00:56:11.730
challenge, which obviously in the movie is, you

00:56:11.730 --> 00:56:15.469
know, this this robot and this villain. Right.

00:56:15.530 --> 00:56:16.789
They're taking this on. But that's really just

00:56:16.789 --> 00:56:18.530
an example of things in our lives that we have

00:56:18.530 --> 00:56:20.849
to encounter. And they do it together as a family,

00:56:20.929 --> 00:56:22.849
which is really which is really cool. Right.

00:56:22.929 --> 00:56:25.269
That they come this resolution realizing like,

00:56:25.349 --> 00:56:29.070
well, let me go back to because it reminded me

00:56:29.070 --> 00:56:31.829
earlier when you were talking. We're like, what

00:56:31.829 --> 00:56:35.300
his purpose is. I mean, he was a superhero. Yeah.

00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:37.239
He saved people. And then he went away from that.

00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:39.920
He didn't have that. And he starts doing it secretly,

00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:42.239
which isn't good for him to do it secretly. But

00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:43.920
I think what it starts to reveal is like, okay,

00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:45.480
no way. He actually does have a purpose where

00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:48.000
if he can be fulfilling the purpose of being

00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:50.300
Mr. Incredible, being super strong, saving people,

00:56:50.380 --> 00:56:54.599
that's actually. what his purpose was. It just

00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:57.260
needs to be done in the right way. So then when

00:56:57.260 --> 00:57:00.039
his family knows about it, he's able to be open

00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:03.639
about it. He and Helen can communicate about

00:57:03.639 --> 00:57:05.579
it. His kids know he's doing it. Now suddenly

00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:08.139
he starts stepping into his own. Then he can

00:57:08.139 --> 00:57:11.000
become a fuller version of himself where he can

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:14.400
embrace the strength that he has and build a

00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.559
relationship with Helen and build a relationship

00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:19.300
with his kids. And one of the things that he

00:57:19.300 --> 00:57:23.139
kind of has in the end where he's verbalizing

00:57:23.139 --> 00:57:25.400
this realization he's coming to. He was like,

00:57:25.539 --> 00:57:29.260
I was so obsessed with being undervalued that

00:57:29.260 --> 00:57:31.300
I undervalued all of you, talking to his family.

00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:34.340
So caught up in the past that I almost missed

00:57:34.340 --> 00:57:36.239
it. You are my greatest adventure and I almost

00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:39.059
missed it. And it was this really nice way to

00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:41.099
kind of wrap it up of like, he's realizing and

00:57:41.099 --> 00:57:42.579
coming to the realization they're better together.

00:57:43.099 --> 00:57:47.239
But he had to figure himself out too. He couldn't

00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:50.179
just be this guy that wasn't fulfilling a purpose,

00:57:50.300 --> 00:57:52.980
was just sitting there in a cubicle working for

00:57:52.980 --> 00:57:55.599
an insurance company. That was horrible, right?

00:57:55.820 --> 00:57:58.559
That wasn't the real version of himself. He had

00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:01.800
to peel back the layers, find it, step into that,

00:58:02.059 --> 00:58:03.880
and then he could be a better father and a better

00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:05.460
husband. Absolutely. Which I think is kind of

00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:08.269
fun. Yeah. So let me ask you another quote, too,

00:58:08.309 --> 00:58:10.349
because going back to this idea of being vulnerable,

00:58:10.530 --> 00:58:14.349
we all know Brene Brown, right, talks about vulnerability

00:58:14.349 --> 00:58:16.750
as much as anybody. And she said, we can only

00:58:16.750 --> 00:58:20.010
love others as much as we love ourselves. Shame,

00:58:20.170 --> 00:58:24.630
blame, disrespect, betrayal, and the withholding

00:58:24.630 --> 00:58:28.010
of affection damage the roots from which love

00:58:28.010 --> 00:58:31.590
grows. What's your take on that quote? I love

00:58:31.590 --> 00:58:36.260
it. I love her. I strongly believe in that. And

00:58:36.260 --> 00:58:40.679
I believe that by creating emotional safety and

00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:45.000
vulnerability, it invites more of that. And so

00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:51.739
I think that it's impossible to be vulnerable

00:58:51.739 --> 00:58:53.639
if you don't feel safe. And so if you don't have

00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:56.500
respect and all of those other things that you

00:58:56.500 --> 00:59:00.070
mentioned, then it's not going to. provide a

00:59:00.070 --> 00:59:03.730
space or invite vulnerability at all and it's

00:59:03.730 --> 00:59:06.190
really hard to have any type of relationship

00:59:06.190 --> 00:59:08.789
without that they're pretty surface level if

00:59:08.789 --> 00:59:11.469
you don't and so all of those things that you

00:59:11.469 --> 00:59:16.110
listed um all those things that she lists are

00:59:16.110 --> 00:59:19.750
really just kind of like don't do that don't

00:59:19.750 --> 00:59:21.670
do this but i like to think of it in a positive

00:59:21.670 --> 00:59:25.920
way of like respect And safety and those types

00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:29.239
of qualities provide a space for people to be

00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:33.360
vulnerable with you. And they're more likely

00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:36.400
to be vulnerable if you can show up that way.

00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:39.300
I think what you said actually is an interesting

00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:41.519
take on it because I think we can take the positive

00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:42.980
spin on each one of these things about what to

00:59:42.980 --> 00:59:47.639
do. How do we not shame or blame? Well, we be

00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:52.010
curious. We assume positive intent. We find out

00:59:52.010 --> 00:59:53.429
more when someone's saying those things. We're

00:59:53.429 --> 00:59:54.769
not going to shame them or blame them. We're

00:59:54.769 --> 00:59:56.829
going to find out, oh, hey, help me understand

00:59:56.829 --> 00:59:58.809
that more. Oh, I'm really curious about what

00:59:58.809 --> 01:00:00.829
that was like for you. What were you experiencing

01:00:00.829 --> 01:00:02.550
in that moment? What was your perspective about

01:00:02.550 --> 01:00:04.750
that thing that happened, right? Validating.

01:00:04.989 --> 01:00:07.610
Like you said earlier, how do we, the opposite

01:00:07.610 --> 01:00:09.610
of disrespect, obviously be respectful of those

01:00:09.610 --> 01:00:12.070
things, be kind in the communications about those

01:00:12.070 --> 01:00:14.210
things. Even if we don't understand them, we

01:00:14.210 --> 01:00:16.190
can still be kind in the way that we have the

01:00:16.190 --> 01:00:18.150
communication to try to dig a little bit deeper.

01:00:18.250 --> 01:00:19.809
And so it's almost like we can take the opposite

01:00:19.809 --> 01:00:22.210
of these things to find out what to do, how to

01:00:22.210 --> 01:00:25.510
be positive and proactive and making sure that

01:00:25.510 --> 01:00:28.789
we're building those connections better. Another

01:00:28.789 --> 01:00:30.150
quote here, Mel Robbins, I want to get your take

01:00:30.150 --> 01:00:32.530
on this one too, because I think this is right

01:00:32.530 --> 01:00:34.329
in line with what you've kind of taught us today.

01:00:35.070 --> 01:00:37.369
She said, you are responsible for the energy

01:00:37.369 --> 01:00:40.829
you bring and how you show up. You are responsible

01:00:40.829 --> 01:00:43.170
for waking up every day and doing the work to

01:00:43.170 --> 01:00:45.969
make progress on what matters. Nobody owes you

01:00:45.969 --> 01:00:49.690
anything, but you owe yourself everything. Let

01:00:49.690 --> 01:00:53.809
me get your take on that. So when I hear that,

01:00:53.929 --> 01:00:59.070
I think about accountability. and self -awareness.

01:00:59.610 --> 01:01:04.690
And it all kind of ties into the let them theory

01:01:04.690 --> 01:01:08.489
that she created as well. But she's right. She's

01:01:08.489 --> 01:01:11.030
absolutely right. We cannot control another person.

01:01:11.070 --> 01:01:14.050
We cannot make them feel the way we want them

01:01:14.050 --> 01:01:16.909
to show up in the way that we want them to. But

01:01:16.909 --> 01:01:21.050
when we focus on ourselves and what our contributions

01:01:21.050 --> 01:01:25.519
are to our relationship or lack thereof, or what

01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:28.019
maybe our contributions were to a challenging

01:01:28.019 --> 01:01:30.639
conversation or argument, when we are more focused

01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:33.920
on ourselves, how we're showing up in relationships,

01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.179
and what we're doing to improve ourselves, then

01:01:37.179 --> 01:01:40.280
everything, it's kind of like the domino effect.

01:01:40.380 --> 01:01:44.460
Everything else just works a little better. And

01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:46.739
if the outcome doesn't end up being what you

01:01:46.739 --> 01:01:50.280
want it to be, then you're at least able to process

01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:52.340
it with a little bit more peace, knowing that

01:01:52.340 --> 01:01:55.440
you did everything that you could. And that is

01:01:55.440 --> 01:02:00.619
100 % something that I stand by in every situation

01:02:00.619 --> 01:02:04.599
in my own personal life. I genuinely tried to

01:02:04.599 --> 01:02:07.159
do everything that I could and learn all I could

01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:10.539
about myself and essentially did my homework

01:02:10.539 --> 01:02:13.480
before I've had to end certain relationships

01:02:13.480 --> 01:02:17.929
because we are responsible. We are adults. And

01:02:17.929 --> 01:02:20.190
we are responsible for communicating our needs.

01:02:20.289 --> 01:02:25.170
We are responsible for how we show up. And we

01:02:25.170 --> 01:02:29.829
can't control the outcomes. But life is a lot

01:02:29.829 --> 01:02:31.449
better when you can look yourself in the mirror

01:02:31.449 --> 01:02:34.530
and say, I did everything. I really showed up

01:02:34.530 --> 01:02:37.469
my best in this situation at work or in my marriage

01:02:37.469 --> 01:02:41.369
or with this friendship. And I sought help when

01:02:41.369 --> 01:02:43.869
I didn't know what to do. And I educated myself.

01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:50.780
When it comes to what I like to call life college,

01:02:51.059 --> 01:02:53.940
we're all in life college together. People are

01:02:53.940 --> 01:02:57.500
our teachers. It's a lot easier to navigate when

01:02:57.500 --> 01:03:00.139
you are more focused on what you can do better

01:03:00.139 --> 01:03:02.119
and pouring into yourself than worried about

01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:05.000
what everybody else should be doing. Take your

01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:07.340
finger, point it back at you instead of blaming

01:03:07.340 --> 01:03:11.119
other people for how you act or how you show

01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:14.320
up in the world and focus on what you can change.

01:03:16.269 --> 01:03:19.449
You know, as you talked about that, one of the

01:03:19.449 --> 01:03:24.510
things that I took away is once you do everything

01:03:24.510 --> 01:03:27.230
you can, give yourself that grace that you did.

01:03:27.570 --> 01:03:29.949
Because I think it's easy, even if it's not an

01:03:29.949 --> 01:03:31.949
overall relationship, even if it's just one particular

01:03:31.949 --> 01:03:35.889
argument or disagreement, if you bring everything

01:03:35.889 --> 01:03:38.239
you can to it. You bring kindness, you bring

01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:40.559
patience, you bring validation, understanding.

01:03:40.820 --> 01:03:43.239
It still might not turn out the way you want.

01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:45.239
The other person still might not receive it.

01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:48.119
You still might not reach a resolution. At that

01:03:48.119 --> 01:03:51.019
point in time, accepting that that part might

01:03:51.019 --> 01:03:54.900
be out of your control is hard, but I also think

01:03:54.900 --> 01:03:57.820
it's essential to do. Absolutely. Yeah. Recognize

01:03:57.820 --> 01:04:00.340
we tried. The other part of her theory of like,

01:04:00.380 --> 01:04:04.239
let them is let me, what am I going to do now?

01:04:04.380 --> 01:04:09.010
Yeah. And how am I going to, like in the example

01:04:09.010 --> 01:04:11.690
of a relationship, am I going to continue this

01:04:11.690 --> 01:04:13.750
relationship? Am I going to continue to try to

01:04:13.750 --> 01:04:18.210
have these conversations? And we get to decide

01:04:18.210 --> 01:04:21.230
what we do after that, after maybe someone has

01:04:21.230 --> 01:04:23.110
shown us who they are over and over and over.

01:04:23.190 --> 01:04:28.230
We have really tried. Yeah, so good. So what

01:04:28.230 --> 01:04:32.090
should I have asked you that I haven't asked

01:04:32.090 --> 01:04:36.119
you yet? Oh my goodness. There's so many things.

01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:41.019
Just kidding. You really missed the boat, right?

01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:44.000
Because there's about a hundred. I'm kidding.

01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:46.539
Oh, I messed up. There are just so many layers

01:04:46.539 --> 01:04:51.440
here, right? I don't think there's anything you

01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:54.900
should have asked me. I think that this conversation

01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:57.760
went where it was supposed to go. And I think

01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.400
that anybody listening to it will get exactly

01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:02.980
what they need from it based off of where they're

01:05:02.980 --> 01:05:05.380
at in their life. But at the end of the day,

01:05:05.500 --> 01:05:08.880
we all have relationships. Relationships with

01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:12.400
ourself, with others, and with life. And so I

01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:16.199
think that from our conversation, people will

01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:18.619
get from it what they need. yeah and part of

01:05:18.619 --> 01:05:22.099
what i love about just storytelling in general

01:05:22.099 --> 01:05:23.760
and i do think that disney does a particularly

01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:27.739
good job of it but really any story is that if

01:05:27.739 --> 01:05:30.179
we take the time to look a little deeper there's

01:05:30.179 --> 01:05:32.940
so much there that we can learn from to improve

01:05:32.940 --> 01:05:36.039
our lives I mean, to be honest, even when I was

01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:38.500
preparing for this, I didn't realize the depth

01:05:38.500 --> 01:05:40.579
of some of these things in relationship between

01:05:40.579 --> 01:05:43.599
Bob and Helen that you pulled out. Like I learned

01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:45.760
in this conversation about some of these things

01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:47.480
that helped me understand relationships better.

01:05:47.539 --> 01:05:51.059
And so I just love storytelling because of that.

01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:54.239
It helps pull things out. So before we get to

01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:57.380
our three actionable takeaways, before we get

01:05:57.380 --> 01:05:58.699
there, we're gonna do a couple of fun segments.

01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:01.900
Okay. You ready for these? Okay. Maybe. Yes.

01:06:01.900 --> 01:06:03.920
You're like, uh -oh, a little trepidatious about

01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:06.179
this. That's okay. The first one is going to

01:06:06.179 --> 01:06:08.900
be this or that. Okay. So you simply make the

01:06:08.900 --> 01:06:11.380
selection of which one you think it is. No explanation

01:06:11.380 --> 01:06:13.659
required unless you want to give it. Okay. You

01:06:13.659 --> 01:06:15.960
want to give it all day. Okay. You ready? Here

01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:20.539
goes. Okay. Mr. Incredible or Elastigirl? Mr.

01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:24.480
Incredible. Okay. Okay. He's pretty rad. Like

01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:26.159
when he's lifting the trains and stuff. Like,

01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:28.719
okay, he's awesome. Yeah, he's cool. Let's see.

01:06:29.340 --> 01:06:33.699
Disneyland or Disney World? Land. Disneyland.

01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:36.599
I mean, out here in the West, we tend to go to

01:06:36.599 --> 01:06:38.320
Disneyland quite a bit more. Yeah. Probably had

01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:40.179
that experience as well. When I've talked to

01:06:40.179 --> 01:06:41.739
people on the East Coast, it's usually the opposite

01:06:41.739 --> 01:06:43.059
because they're closer and they've been to Disney

01:06:43.059 --> 01:06:48.539
World more. Morning routine or late night? Late

01:06:48.539 --> 01:06:51.500
night. You're a late night gal. I shouldn't be.

01:06:51.579 --> 01:06:53.380
You shouldn't be. You're like, well, I know that

01:06:53.380 --> 01:06:56.420
I shouldn't. Are you an early riser, but it's

01:06:56.420 --> 01:06:58.519
just miserable? You know what? I've just never

01:06:58.519 --> 01:07:02.619
been a morning person, but it's like sometimes

01:07:02.619 --> 01:07:06.219
my brain just works so good at night. Yeah. But

01:07:06.219 --> 01:07:08.000
it's when I should be asleep and then I feel

01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:10.440
miserable in the morning and the whole cycle

01:07:10.440 --> 01:07:15.079
just continues. I found it interesting as I had

01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:17.900
to really train myself to be a morning person.

01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:20.099
I mean, it took years of doing it so that I could.

01:07:20.860 --> 01:07:23.900
What used to be at night is when I did some great

01:07:23.900 --> 01:07:26.579
thinking has now transitioned to the morning.

01:07:27.300 --> 01:07:29.880
And so in the morning when I do, when no one

01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:34.380
else is awake, I'm the only one. That's, you

01:07:34.380 --> 01:07:36.039
know, at least in my household or seems like

01:07:36.039 --> 01:07:38.960
in the world, right? It's awake. Boy, my brain

01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:41.920
functions so good now. But it took a long time

01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:44.960
to get there. It was not an easy feat. Okay.

01:07:45.099 --> 01:07:49.079
Movie night at home or ladies night out? Movie

01:07:49.079 --> 01:07:52.599
night at home all the way. Okay. I am a grandma.

01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.500
You're a grandma, right? I go over the clubs

01:07:55.500 --> 01:07:57.739
and all the things. You get to watch these cute

01:07:57.739 --> 01:07:59.099
movies. I just want to snuggle at home. Yeah.

01:07:59.300 --> 01:08:02.739
Snuggle with your grandbaby. Yeah. Those snuggles

01:08:02.739 --> 01:08:04.980
are the best. I like to be alone too. Okay. Yeah.

01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:07.960
There you go. I love to be alone. To you. Yes.

01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:11.059
Do you solo travel ever? Yes. And you love it?

01:08:11.340 --> 01:08:14.400
Love it. Oh. I just went to, I actually like

01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:16.920
Florida more than California, but I prefer Disneyland.

01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:19.260
But yeah, I just went to Florida for 10 days.

01:08:19.779 --> 01:08:23.880
Where in Florida? The Panhandle, 38, that area.

01:08:25.300 --> 01:08:27.979
Is that what you called it? Yeah, it's a highway,

01:08:28.159 --> 01:08:31.359
and it has all these beach towns like Alice Beach.

01:08:31.779 --> 01:08:34.260
It's all white. It looks like Greece. Okay, tell

01:08:34.260 --> 01:08:37.760
me, because I'm relatively ignorant for Florida

01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:40.760
things, but I know of one city. Tell me if it's

01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:42.439
in this area you're talking about, but Panama

01:08:42.439 --> 01:08:44.420
City Beach. Is that somewhere in that area? I

01:08:44.420 --> 01:08:49.420
mean, I am not an expert, but I did not go there,

01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:54.180
but sure, yeah. We went there once. My wife had

01:08:54.180 --> 01:08:56.140
decided we were going to go there. And, I mean,

01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:58.159
some of the most beautiful white sand beaches

01:08:58.159 --> 01:09:01.479
that you'll ever see. It is there, yeah. I remember

01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:03.100
stepping on it because she had been there before.

01:09:03.140 --> 01:09:05.220
She told me, like, it's so soft. And I was like,

01:09:05.260 --> 01:09:06.720
how soft can it really be? Because I'm used to

01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:09.239
California. And that sand's pretty grainy. Totally

01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:10.819
different. I love California. It's just different.

01:09:11.340 --> 01:09:13.000
And I walked on it for the first time. I'm like,

01:09:13.060 --> 01:09:14.880
it's like walking on powdered sugar. Oh, yeah.

01:09:15.020 --> 01:09:17.380
You literally feel like you're in the Maldives.

01:09:17.380 --> 01:09:21.880
The water is clear and the sand is like fine

01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:24.819
like sugar. I flew into Panama City. Hello. Oh,

01:09:24.819 --> 01:09:27.439
did you? How did you forget that? PCB? Yes. Panama

01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:30.439
City Beach. But I would say that 30A is prettier

01:09:30.439 --> 01:09:32.899
than that and like on your way to Destin. Okay.

01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:34.699
Yeah. So I'm going to give that a shot then.

01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:39.300
Okay. Hiking or running? Hiking. Hiking. Where's

01:09:39.300 --> 01:09:42.090
a good hike around? Around these parts. Around

01:09:42.090 --> 01:09:44.850
these parts. You could do Bell's Canyon, but

01:09:44.850 --> 01:09:46.909
further south is prettier, like Stewart Falls

01:09:46.909 --> 01:09:50.869
up by Sundance. Okay. Yeah. Love it. Spa day

01:09:50.869 --> 01:09:55.050
or adventure day? Spa day. We'll have a good

01:09:55.050 --> 01:09:58.270
spa day? Yeah. I can get down with a good spa

01:09:58.270 --> 01:10:01.149
day. I'll tell you what. I'm a little bit of

01:10:01.149 --> 01:10:03.630
a prima donna sometimes. No, I think I'm just

01:10:03.630 --> 01:10:07.050
getting old or something. I just don't. I took

01:10:07.050 --> 01:10:09.550
my kids to Costa Rica last summer. So fun. And

01:10:09.550 --> 01:10:12.569
they're teenage boys and adult boys. And so I'm

01:10:12.569 --> 01:10:14.090
like, okay, this is going to be an epic trip.

01:10:14.189 --> 01:10:16.949
So we went hard for 10 days. And I got back and

01:10:16.949 --> 01:10:18.670
I was like, I need a vacation from the vacation.

01:10:19.029 --> 01:10:22.770
So true. I started building in a buffer day.

01:10:23.170 --> 01:10:25.289
Because if I don't and I go too hard somewhere,

01:10:25.529 --> 01:10:27.590
it's just like, oh, my goodness. And work the

01:10:27.590 --> 01:10:28.710
next day is horrible. I got to have a buffer

01:10:28.710 --> 01:10:32.989
day. Yeah. Smart. Okay. Last one of this or that.

01:10:33.449 --> 01:10:37.170
Cooking at home or trying a new restaurant? I

01:10:37.170 --> 01:10:40.609
think I got burnout for cooking for my family

01:10:40.609 --> 01:10:45.350
for so long. And so I would prefer a restaurant,

01:10:45.430 --> 01:10:47.770
but I do meal prep every Sunday and have all

01:10:47.770 --> 01:10:50.250
my healthy meals to go. I don't like it though.

01:10:50.329 --> 01:10:53.369
Good for you. Oh, I just, meal prepping is so

01:10:53.369 --> 01:10:56.010
hard for me. Yeah. It's so hard. I know I need

01:10:56.010 --> 01:10:57.829
to do it and I've done it in the past, but it's

01:10:57.829 --> 01:11:00.199
just, it's tough. Okay, here's a rapid fire,

01:11:00.300 --> 01:11:02.539
okay? Oh, no. I'm going to mix it up a little

01:11:02.539 --> 01:11:04.619
bit, though. I'm going to throw one in here that

01:11:04.619 --> 01:11:07.479
was unexpected. Favorite restaurant, since we're

01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:10.960
on the topic of it. It's not even going to be

01:11:10.960 --> 01:11:12.359
one you guys know, because it's like a little

01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:14.840
podunk Mexican restaurant. Amazing. Let's hear

01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:21.600
it. Mirancherito. Where at? In Payson, Utah.

01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:24.760
In Payson. Got to go to the little Payson. Chips

01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:28.659
and salsa with a Diet Coke. Oh, so good. Mi Rancherito.

01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:31.579
Okay. Because there's a Mi Ranchito just down

01:11:31.579 --> 01:11:33.840
the road here. Not that. Which I do love. Los

01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:36.239
Hermanos, too. Los Hermanos. In Provo. That's

01:11:36.239 --> 01:11:38.260
great. Some good ones. But the farther you go,

01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:40.560
the Mexican food isn't as great. Okay. There

01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:42.899
are phenomenal restaurants in Salt Lake County,

01:11:43.020 --> 01:11:46.119
in this area. It's true. But the Mexican restaurants

01:11:46.119 --> 01:11:49.159
are down south. Okay. I love it. Favorite Disney

01:11:49.159 --> 01:11:53.239
movie? People are going to think this is lame,

01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:55.539
but I'm owning it. Emperor's New Groove because

01:11:55.539 --> 01:11:57.699
it's like the only one that makes me laugh out

01:11:57.699 --> 01:11:59.880
loud. Yeah, I love it. We talked about this earlier,

01:11:59.960 --> 01:12:03.000
but like it is such a cult classic now. It has

01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:05.800
just gained so much momentum. Like people love

01:12:05.800 --> 01:12:08.420
that movie. I don't even know if it's represented

01:12:08.420 --> 01:12:11.319
at Disneyland, but it's like it's funny. It's

01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:13.619
not, but kind of. I'm going to say why it's kind

01:12:13.619 --> 01:12:16.720
of because the guy that played Putty in Seinfeld.

01:12:17.239 --> 01:12:19.420
He was a voice in Emperor's New Groove. And then

01:12:19.420 --> 01:12:22.460
he's the guy that's like the intro guy for Soren.

01:12:22.899 --> 01:12:25.859
Okay. Who I love. His voice is so distinct. I

01:12:25.859 --> 01:12:29.340
think he's – is it Grok or Gronk? Yeah. Whatever

01:12:29.340 --> 01:12:32.859
the character is, he does that voice. And he's

01:12:32.859 --> 01:12:35.079
just got such a great voice that's so distinctive.

01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:43.399
I love that guy. Favorite Disney song? This is

01:12:43.399 --> 01:12:47.020
a hard one. I should have prepared for this one.

01:12:49.140 --> 01:12:53.699
I don't want to say the cheesy one that's on

01:12:53.699 --> 01:12:56.399
my mind right now. Let's hear it. I've heard

01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:58.340
so many cheesy ones. I'm not saying this is my

01:12:58.340 --> 01:13:01.560
current favorite song. I'm just saying I remember

01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:07.560
being a teenager and I vividly remember being

01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:10.640
in my bedroom. I don't know how old I was. We're

01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:12.720
going to say young teen so I don't sound so lame.

01:13:14.079 --> 01:13:17.979
In my room singing Colors of the Wind from Pocahontas.

01:13:18.020 --> 01:13:21.779
I just felt so cool singing that. It's a great

01:13:21.779 --> 01:13:23.600
song though. I'm not saying that's my favorite

01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:25.579
song. Okay. I got to do some research. Still

01:13:25.579 --> 01:13:29.619
a great song. Pocahontas, the movie itself was

01:13:29.619 --> 01:13:32.739
okay for me, but the songs were really good.

01:13:33.220 --> 01:13:35.560
When I listen to them now, my kids really like

01:13:35.560 --> 01:13:36.899
them because it's got some great songs. Colors

01:13:36.899 --> 01:13:38.500
of the Wind is one of those excellent songs.

01:13:38.859 --> 01:13:40.539
I don't fault you for it. It might not be your

01:13:40.539 --> 01:13:41.859
favorite, but I don't fault for it being pretty

01:13:41.859 --> 01:13:47.329
high. Favorite Disney princess? Oh, I used to

01:13:47.329 --> 01:13:50.789
always dress up as Cinderella and Tinkerbell

01:13:50.789 --> 01:13:52.869
because it was just easy. Yeah. Because of my

01:13:52.869 --> 01:13:55.130
blonde hair. So I'm going to say those two. Well,

01:13:55.149 --> 01:13:57.909
Cinderella is a classic. Many, many people have

01:13:57.909 --> 01:14:00.369
Cinderella as their favorite Disney princess.

01:14:01.270 --> 01:14:03.750
Favorite podcast you are listening to right now?

01:14:03.869 --> 01:14:09.229
Oh, I have so many. I would say Gabrielle Bernstein's

01:14:09.229 --> 01:14:12.220
Dear Gabby podcast. Dear Gabby. Okay. I have

01:14:12.220 --> 01:14:13.600
not listened to that one. I'm going to have to

01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:15.260
add it to the mix. I don't know if it's your

01:14:15.260 --> 01:14:19.939
thing, but. What is it? Think of her as like

01:14:19.939 --> 01:14:23.840
a prophet of love and spiritual guide. Okay.

01:14:24.100 --> 01:14:26.380
Yeah. I mean, I'll listen to anything once. I'll

01:14:26.380 --> 01:14:29.640
give it a shot. I'll listen to an episode. Favorite

01:14:29.640 --> 01:14:35.420
self -help book. Ooh, that's hard. She is one

01:14:35.420 --> 01:14:38.539
of my favorite authors too. It depends on what

01:14:38.539 --> 01:14:42.520
you need, but. You know, I'm going to go with

01:14:42.520 --> 01:14:44.840
it because her book was the very first one I

01:14:44.840 --> 01:14:48.180
read after divorce and it changed my life. Gabrielle

01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:50.840
Bernstein, The Universe Has Your Back. Okay.

01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:54.460
Okay, good. We'll add that one. We'll add that

01:14:54.460 --> 01:14:56.060
one to the mix, right? We're going to put that

01:14:56.060 --> 01:14:58.000
little link to that one, right? We'll shout her

01:14:58.000 --> 01:14:59.760
out, right? If it's a great book that helps you,

01:14:59.819 --> 01:15:01.739
like, we'll give it a shot. We'll put it out

01:15:01.739 --> 01:15:05.220
there for people. Well, that's the end of our

01:15:05.220 --> 01:15:07.529
rapid fire. That wasn't so bad. Oh, I thought

01:15:07.529 --> 01:15:09.970
it was way more Disney stuff. Yeah. I rolled

01:15:09.970 --> 01:15:11.609
it back. I rolled it back. That's really good.

01:15:11.729 --> 01:15:12.810
When you said you were intimidated, I was like,

01:15:12.890 --> 01:15:14.970
we'll roll it back. No big deal. I mean, I could

01:15:14.970 --> 01:15:18.430
go on for Disney stuff for hours and hours. Ask

01:15:18.430 --> 01:15:20.909
me 10, 15 years ago. Yeah, you've been pulling

01:15:20.909 --> 01:15:22.609
out. You're going to start hitting it, though,

01:15:22.630 --> 01:15:23.989
because if you get a little three -year -old

01:15:23.989 --> 01:15:27.369
grandbaby, that three -year -old is going to

01:15:27.369 --> 01:15:30.439
start watching some Disney stuff. Well, so what

01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:33.119
we always like to do, Cassie, is we like to end

01:15:33.119 --> 01:15:35.699
each episode with three actionable takeaways

01:15:35.699 --> 01:15:37.920
to provide to our audience of three specific

01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:40.279
things they can put into action in their lives

01:15:40.279 --> 01:15:44.460
today or this week. So what are your three recommended

01:15:44.460 --> 01:15:52.859
actionable takeaways? First, give people the

01:15:52.859 --> 01:15:59.829
most generous assumption. Love it. Second. Turn

01:15:59.829 --> 01:16:04.210
to love over fear. Always choose love over fear.

01:16:05.789 --> 01:16:10.750
Third, take a look at, become curious about,

01:16:10.869 --> 01:16:13.869
and first work on the relationship with yourself,

01:16:14.149 --> 01:16:17.329
your relationship with life, and then your relationship

01:16:17.329 --> 01:16:21.720
with others. So good. That's excellent. And the

01:16:21.720 --> 01:16:24.439
more that we do the relationship with ourselves,

01:16:24.659 --> 01:16:27.460
then the next ones fall in line. Right. Then

01:16:27.460 --> 01:16:30.880
it's easier to have the relationship with our

01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:33.119
spouses, with our kids, with those around us.

01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:34.920
Those things just kind of build on each other.

01:16:35.039 --> 01:16:37.159
Yeah, I love that. It's fantastic. Well, thank

01:16:37.159 --> 01:16:40.699
you so much for being with us today. Yes. And

01:16:40.699 --> 01:16:45.310
land for talking through. The Incredibles, which

01:16:45.310 --> 01:16:47.029
is such a fun show, looking at relationships,

01:16:47.289 --> 01:16:49.970
looking at how we have more self -love, working

01:16:49.970 --> 01:16:52.909
ourselves, also work through grief, not being

01:16:52.909 --> 01:16:55.869
judgmental, assuming positive intent, as you

01:16:55.869 --> 01:16:57.909
said. So again, thank you so much. Thanks for

01:16:57.909 --> 01:17:01.710
having me. As you lead this conversation, remember

01:17:01.710 --> 01:17:04.750
that yes, the past can hurt and you can either

01:17:04.750 --> 01:17:08.069
run from it or you can learn from it. So here's

01:17:08.069 --> 01:17:11.689
to learning and finding joy in the journey. See

01:17:11.689 --> 01:17:12.210
you real soon.