Lion King Leadership: Building Relationships That Matter | with Mayor Lorin Palmer

0:01 Welcome to Yes And Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today, and we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Today, super excited because we have Mayor Lauren Palmer joining us. He is the mayor of Harriman, which is, I think it's the fastest growing city in Utah. If not the, it's one of the fastest growing cities in Utah, right? It has been yes. Yeah, it is just absolutely boom and you have so much going on there a great city And we're very excited for him to join us today and we're gonna be talking about a number of different things. We're gonna talk about leadership and building Relationships and and the importance of building those relationships and collaboration And we're also going to look at that through the lens of Lion King, right and we're talking specifically about Mufasa in Lion King and the kind of leader he was and what we can learn from both him and also from Mayor Palmer. So very excited for the conversation today. Could be fun. So as we kind of get kicked off, what I'd love to do is kind of talk about. Kind of your backstory. What got you to where you are now?

1:13 Because as I understand it, being in politics was not necessarily the plan. That was something that kind of happened as some different adventures and experiences unfold in your life. But let's roll it all the way back, right? Let's roll it back to when you're from Price, a city that we love and hold dear here, as my law partner is from Price and we know loads of people from Price. So you, you grew up there and, and when do you eventually like leave price and what was that like? So I was there through my mission. Okay. Right. Served an earliest mission. And what'd you serve? In Uruguay, South America. Uruguay. So speak, you speak Spanish. Yep. I kept up on that. Which I'll bet is a little bit an asset as a mayor. Absolutely. Yeah. Use it daily. Probably.

1:57 Really? Absolutely. I wouldn't have guessed that. Amazing. Yep. Okay. Been a blessing. And then served that mission, came home, did the typical, got married pretty quick. Yep. After. And then, you know, we were just talking out in the hall, right? Which it was really not a lot of opportunity there, unfortunately. Unfortunately. I wish there would have been, right? But there just wasn't at the time. And then so we left, got married left, came up here, went to school. Actually didn't have any plans when we moved up here. Just tried to find a job, didn't know much about schooling options. I just didn't. My parents didn't love my parents, but they didn't know how to guide me through the college experience even. So I came up here. was working and my friend in my neighborhood put me under this job at a company called Avco House of Hoes and said, Hey, you got to come work here. It's this industrial space, but they'll put you you know, they'll pay for your schooling. Oh, amazing. Absolutely.

2:52 I'll hop on that'll be do something. So I wanted to do I'd always wanted to pre mad maybe do physical therapy. But they said, Well, all we pay for is business. I said, Well, I guess I'm gonna be a business major business. So I didn't I don't even know if I ever used that, because I just stayed with that company for several years, even after finishing. Where did you go to school? UVU. UVSC at the time, was it? It's so weird for me, because I always think of it as UVSC, kind of rolled off the tongue. And so when I hear UVU, it always kind of takes me like a split second, like, OK, that's the same place. Same place, yes. So you're a business major there? Business major. Was it like business administration? Was it just general business management? Okay. And again, but I stayed there for a while and I was doing management stuff within they moved me to St. George to open up a new branch of that when I was 27. I was pretty young moved down there. But it wasn't like management. I didn't love it, right? It wasn't my I didn't love managing the people I just wasn't too close to people.

3:49 I became a friend more than a manager. It was tricky, right? It is. But then I landed on the sell side. They gave me a shot over on the sell side. And that's what I just I found my passion was cells and relationships. And that just took off from there. And that became the rest of my career until I went through a divorce. And we talked, as you know, went through a divorce. And then you had some kids with your ex, right? We had four. We had four. Two boys and then twins that are boy, girl. So they happened pretty fast. I think plans were three. When the third one is a twin, then you have four. Yep, you have four. It is what it is. But it was amazing. Kids are all grown, married now. All doing their thing.

4:30 Let me, I mean, as a divorce attorney, I won't get into any details. We don't want to force you to go anything down that path. But I have a couple of questions there, which is like, you're going through this and your kids are doing amazing. So y 'all must have done something right in co -parenting. And so walk me through like the emotions after you get divorced. And then what you did to find a really healthy co -parenting relationship. Absolutely. So initially, I'll give all the credit to my ex -wife. She was just... Because I struggled. I went through a major depression. Because at the same time, when it started through to my divorce, I actually left the host company for a while and went and started another company with a friend. But it just wasn't... It wasn't busy. I wasn't... you know, couldn't keep my mind off of things all the time. I was doing a lot of weekend work with this other company, which was when you're doing the weekend warrior thing as a dad, it didn't, it wasn't working.

5:25 So I was, I was honestly in a dark place at one point where I couldn't get out of bed in the morning. I was up all night worried about where I was failing. And then I was so tired, I couldn't get up in the morning. So I had a business partner that was patient with me as well, but really it was my ex -wife just understanding this was about the kids. It wasn't about her and I. There was never anything awful there at all, right? But it wasn't... I wasn't a very good... I tell everybody I was not a good dad for a while because I was absent, I was stressed, I was depressed. And then, you know, it just clicked one day. I just, you know, started doing some therapy, started doing some other stuff, and finally was able to turn it around and then met my current wife, who actually did a lot to kind of pull me across the finish line, I told her, that she kind of helped pull me across the finish line.

6:10 And that... then I became... she was very willing to be involved with the kids and that helped us because it's not easy to be a stepparent. Being a stepparent, I tell my wife because I have some kids with an ex as well and she's a stepparent to my two boys. A stepparent is a thankless job. It's really hard because you can do all the right things and yet you're not the biological parent and you might always still have that kind of stigma from the kids who just don't appreciate the stepparent, even if they're doing a lot for the kids. And so being a stepparent is really hard. Like you said, bankless almost sometimes. But still, hats off to her. So I've had two very selfless women in my life, honestly.

6:51 My ex -wife and now my current wife, who's been good. And then it's interesting, my ex -wife had with her, she remarried within a couple of years, and they had their oldest one they had together actually was diagnosed with leukemia. Oh, goodness. And when he was diagnosed with leukemia, the four older ones were elementary school, so they were busy. They had to spend a lot of time at primary children's for treatment. And then she was pregnant again with their second. He was 20 months old when he was diagnosed. But then we had to step in and really just... It became this one big... As they were going through their trial with their son with leukemia, we all had to kind of come together and it... became this big, that's where we realized it took a, it took a village. Really they make that happen.

7:37 And so really that brought everybody together. It doesn't mean we're all best friends still. We're very different paths, I guess a little bit, but at the end of the day, it's been about the kids and that's just been the focus. And again, we stayed close to each other. Once, soon as my old, the youngest hit graduated, she took off to Santaquin. We, you know, so we had to stay close. We both kind of agreed to stay close and both. times toyed with ideas of moving out, but we knew that wasn't going to be best for the kids. Here we are. I mean, I think what it is, it's a testament to a number of things that we try to coach and educate people on, which is, you know, when you get divorced, obviously, people see it as breaking up a family. But what I think talking with some marriage and family therapists and look at the research, I think it's sometimes healthy to look at it in a way that's like, well, this is a different family.

8:27 It's different because you still have these kids in common. And so because of that, like for these kids, it's still their family. Might live in different homes, might look a little different, might end up being blended families and such, but it still is. And when that can function in a healthier way, then you see things like that. I mean, honestly, I think it took a lot from both you and your ex -wife and from your current wife in humility. I mean, one of the things I just heard from you now, which is you're giving credit to other people, which is a really good sign because it certainly took a lot of work for you to get to where you needed to be. But recognizing the contributions of others and being really humble about it, I think it's actually a really healthy thing because then you're recognizing like it functions better if we have humility, if we have kindness that, you know, I think people could really learn from when they're going through a divorce, when they're dealing with an ex. And sometimes it's a little bit hard. Keeping that in mind can be really healthy. And I also think it's it's a good sign for people to like there there's light on the other side you know that even if you're going through something really hard and you go through a dark time that you you'll you'll be able to pull through and it's going to take relying on some other people at times even maybe unconventional people but that like that you can that there's we talk about it where we say like you know we try to help people navigate people through the heartbreak of divorce to a better brighter future so you know we're we're trying to give them hope for the future but it means this you know it is we recognize it's it's heartbreak right it's hard

9:57 it's dark but we want you know we want people to hopefully be able to build for something in the future and you certainly have done that and it's very i think it's very helpful for people to hear uh kind of that path so you uh you're you're doing sales and you're killing it you're finding like this is something that you're really enjoying right tell me about the the pathway professionally for when you're doing that and then kind of what your wife is doing and then kind of where you go from there absolutely so Right out of the gate, as soon as we were married, six months in, my, you know, with my current wife, she loses her job. And we're kind of, when you're paying child support and she loses her job, I was still kind of ramping up my, I had gone back into the sales space, but definitely child support takes, you know, is expensive.

10:39 I'm not complaining, right? But it is, you almost have to have two incomes or one very good income to make it work. And so she loses her job right away, but then luckily lands at a new company pretty quick. and was there for years and was kind of climbing her way through. She had been single for a while. So she had put herself through school and everything and got her master's degree in finance. And so she's working her way up her career ladder. And then I'm doing my, by the time about eight years in, I was doing a national sales role. I was traveling all over the country, leaving every Monday, coming back every Thursday or Friday. And it worked because she was busy with her job, the kids. We saw them on the weekend, so it worked for us. But then we get pregnant.

11:28 And we have that discussion. Where do we do? Where do we go? We actually tried. I did quit my job, my sales job. It was hard. But we were going to take a shift, just a more local job. But we even eventually had that conversation of she was making more than I was. wasn't the traditional roles we wanted to fill. She didn't really want to be the stay -at -home mom. She just wasn't her. And that's OK. I didn't expect that. It was not any disappointment there. We thought we'd do the nanny, try the nanny, try daycare. So I did. Actually, none of that worked out. So I ended up becoming a stay -at -home dad, which was weird. I could go into the mental challenges that that was as well, because I was in a good spot. I was in a good space with my career. I was progressing. I was this national sales manager. I was an expert in my field. And I had goals, monthly goals, yearly goals, and then become a stay at home dad. And that's not my lost my network. I gave up my everybody I knew. Suddenly, they weren't friends. They were acquaintances that you worked with. But that network's gone. But I did it and absolutely would never now looking back. I would never trade that for anything What was that? What was that like emotionally though when you do that where suddenly?

12:45 You're you you leave there you become a stay -home dad all your acquaintances your network all those connections Suddenly you don't have those anymore on on a daily basis Emotionally kind of what are you processing through at that time? Oh my word so many things again It was there was probably a little bit of depression that came in again crept back in a little bit It was hard. It was hard to get motivated some days here hard to, you know, even though I, I remember my wife coming home from work and I just felt like I hadn't got anything done, right? And she was just glad we, we were alive, right? Like kind of in a way that we would survive the day, right? But so it was interesting because it was, it was hard, but rewarding. It was this weird thing. I remember trying to set goals of, you know, different room to clean in the house.

13:29 Like, cause I was trying to take on those roles too. that stay -at -home mom type thing, too, that we talk about, you know, the laundry, the cleaning, and it just, even that, I just couldn't, I couldn't create a, because there was no, I don't know, there was no certain process, there was no routine I could create with the newborn, right? And so, I don't know, it was just weird, you know, a few years, it was a weird few years, and ended up trying to reach out to the community. That's when I started my, I do this weekly lunch now. Everybody thinks it's my... Lunch to meet with the mayor this started actually because I was I needed adult interaction as a stay -at -home dad That's how I reached out to the community and said like hey, I need adult interaction anybody else in this situation Turned out there were a lot of people in the community that were needing that Once a week space. Yeah, I actually think that's really smart I mean again, maybe it's the non -traditional rule especially for Utah but I think it's really helpful to think about that like when somebody decides to You know take on that role of providing that full -time care for children That you still need to have adult interaction. You still need to have a bit of that. And being deliberate about saying, hey, I'm going to do a weekly lunch. That's important.

14:39 I think more people could look at that and consider things like that. I think that's really helpful. It's smart. Yeah. I tried to do some of that. There were some mom and me groups. And it just didn't fit. It felt inappropriate sometimes to hang out with these other moms and their kids. But again, nothing wrong with it. But I just didn't feel. At home there, right? So it was this tried to I got sick of waiting for that space to come to me So I tried to create that space I guess well, and it's it's smart I mean, you know, we talked about a lot of times where there's there's some core human needs and one of those is the the need to have a sense of belonging and When you had that sense of belonging in the career that you were building and all these goals you had and then suddenly that's not there You're starting to lose that So being deliberate and saying, I need to have that sense of belonging, so I'm going to reach out. I'm not going to wait for it to come to me. I'm going to be proactive, is again, something that I think more people could take the advice of. If you're having that disconnection that you feel in your life, if you're having like... Man, I'm just kind of in this grind and I'm not connecting with people and I don't feel like I belong. We'll be proactive.

15:41 Look for those opportunities. Absolutely. Have those relationships, right? That's part of what we're talking about today, right? Like build those relationships. Those relationships are huge. Absolutely. So you start doing that. You start doing those lunches. You're doing the stay home dad thing. How in the world do you end up running for mayor? Right. Well, let me go back again. I truly, everybody laughs when I say this, I hated politics. Yeah. I like them a little bit more today. Sure. still not Because I think I turned out to be okay with this. Yeah, but anyway, I didn't like politics I didn't want to be in politics, but I've been involved in the community a little bit We had done as a resident group. We had created a resident group concerned about some growth patterns in Harriman Honestly, I look back. I don't know that we understood everything what was happening out there, but we got involved and then when The mayor thing opened up. We knew the mayor I won't get into why but everybody knew there was gonna be an open seat for the mayoral And it wasn't even a thought, but my wife and I sat down. Cohen was my little guy. I was getting ready to go into kindergarten. We had this discussion about, do I go back to school? Because I'd always thought about maybe I go get an MBA. I just want to do something different. Do I go back to school, get an MBA? Do I just go back to the sales space I was doing? But that would require probably sometimes in sales you have to travel to be gone a lot to make the money. And so my wife, I remember sitting me down and said, you know, she's financially, because by then she was doing pretty well financially.

17:07 She could pay. She could provide at that point. And she said, why don't you just find a way to make a difference? And that's when it just hit. I don't have to follow a traditional path. Again, what can we do? And then a couple months later, I started getting those whispers from the community about, hey, this mayor thing is going to be open. Why don't you take a look at it? I looked into it. It's more about it's a nonpartisan race. So I'd like that. It's more about community service. I tell everybody if you have the like, not everybody has the LDS background, but I told everybody it's feels like being an elders quorum president for a city. Right? It's just because I felt like I was could look out for all the well being of the community, the temporal well being the physical well being, and then the emotional to bringing people together. And so that's what I felt the role I could serve in that. And that's how I ran as for mayor and Here we are. Yeah. Well, it's interesting and that you saying that reminds me of something that I wrote down, which was some quotes from Lion King, because that's what we're talking about today, right? Absolutely.

18:06 And when Mufasa is teaching Simba, and you probably had this in mind as well, but he says, Mufasa says, look Simba, everything the light touches is our kingdom. Young Simba says, wow. Mufasa says, a king's time as ruler rises and falls like the sun. One day Simba, the sun will set on my time here and will rise with you as a new king. Young Simba says, and this will all be mine. Mufasa says, everything. Young Simba says, everything the light touches. And so, you know, when we think about when you're saying is like there's ways that like the light touches so many different aspects of Harriman, right? The community that you're in. And that's kind of the, I think, a responsibility and a stewardship that you take on when you take on that role, right? Like, hey, there's a lot of responsibility with this. Right.

18:52 Yeah. For you, when you kind of think about that, you think about Mufasa teaching kind of as a leader of his son, what do you think he was trying to teach? And how do you think that maybe Simba wasn't understanding that at that young stage of his life? Right, absolutely. And I look back, it's, you know, a lot of politicians sit in an office and don't you know connect with their community and I looked at a community as a whole and I watched it wasn't about it wasn't about the roads it wasn't about the water lines I mean all that stuff is what we do right it wasn't about that but I watched as a community we were growing so fast like we talked about that at the beginning we were I've been in Harriman now almost 13 14 years and it wasn't 25 000 people when we moved out there right and now we're knocking on the door of 65 70 000 in Harriman But everybody that moved out there seems to want this small -town fill. That's still the pushback we get.

19:47 We came out here for the small -town fill. We all did. But then we're getting so big. So if we look out, my goal is to try to keep everybody with that feeling. This is not my community. It's everybody in the community. I want everybody involved. I want people understanding that this is their community. They can have a part in molding the community. And I think some people don't understand that, that they can play a role in shaping our community. It's not me. I really believe it's not the city council or the mayor that affects the groups that step up, the volunteer organizations that step up. They're the ones that are impacting our community more than, absolutely more than anything. If I play a small role in bringing those people out of the woodworks to get involved, that's, I'll be. thrilled with that, but I think some people don't understand still that they can be involved in a city, in a community, and don't wait around for somebody else to do it. I think that's what's informative and educational about this idea of Mufasa is obviously teaching about this animal kingdom that they're going to be the rulers over. But in reality, I think what Mufasa is teaching him is exactly what you're saying. Like, hey, we play a small role in this. In fact, you talked earlier with Simba about the circle of life, where the role that he's playing, like, maybe he's the king, maybe he's the leader. And I think Simba is taking that like, yeah, I'm going to be the ruler. I'm going to tell everybody what

21:18 to do. Foster's like, that's not the charge here. You have a responsibility, but it's got to be the role that everybody's playing here, and that you're just trying to help that. that circle of life work and work effectively so that people can work together, which is like the opposite of what Scar was doing. Right. Yep. Scar wanted to rule. Like I think Simba was thinking like heavy hand. You do what I say. I'm going to dictate everything. Uh, when in reality it's, it's much more about what you're talking about, you know, helping people find their voice, helping people find what they can do and inspiring them to step up because you do play a role in that. Right. I think people look to a mayor and, and there's there's a certain level when somebody knows that person is the mayor of like, okay, that person is the mayor, like, maybe I should, you know, listen to what they're saying, or, you know, he's saying I could be involved, maybe I maybe I can be involved, maybe there is something more that I can do. But I think is really, he's really inspiring, you know, and when we have leaders, which I think we need more of, that are willing to say like to be humble and say, I'm just playing a small role here. But I need the community to be involved. And I'm just trying to like play a role in helping the community do it, which I think is huge. What is the role for you of building these relationships that you learned for your career of being in sales and building at your network? What role has that played in allowing you to be an effective leader? Well, I think the word you said in there was relationships.

22:46 It's 100 % been about relationships, not just with within the community but without you know outside the community with neighboring communities with business partners with it's just there's this whole network of people that we have to bring together that play a role in our communities and we just that's what that's where my strength is it honestly i i hate even using but that's my strength is bringing people together it's relationships it's collaboration it's understanding i don't have all the answers i don't i don't have all the answers i'm not there's no training how to be a mayor you don't go to school There's no mayoral school. Sure, you can study political science, but it's not the same. It's just not the same. So for me, it's just relationships and trying to bring people together in different roles in every aspect I can. I try to be out in the community as much as possible to be seen.

23:36 It's not about me. It's not, right? I don't go to the store and hope people recognize me. I don't. I actually hope I like to go to the store and kind of be incognito, right? I just want to go to the store and be a... regular guy sometimes right, but it's it's just that it's a hundred percent about relationships and Using those to bring people together and for the better. Yeah, so when we talk about those relationships the importance of them I mean, what do you feel like are the key? The key ways in which people can effectively build those relationships. Like what's the difference? What's the difference between someone who you know is that classic? networker that Kind of like make your skin crawl a little bit, you know, you know kind I'm talking about Oh, yeah, where's are the people where you're like? Oh my nice. This person's just so great.

24:21 Like what's the difference? For me, I had somebody tell me during even during this last campaign I had never heard this before but somebody else reached out during the campaign just last year and basically Sent me a text and it was an endorsement He was offering many endorsement, but he said Lauren he said I I had never met you but I met you at a meeting he says and you took the time to walk up to me, say hi to me. And nobody else exists. I mattered to you in that moment. I could tell it wasn't, you just took the time. Nobody else blocked out. You were focused on me and what I was saying to you. You weren't distracted by other things. So it's really, it has to be a two -way relationship. I even look at it more, I want it to be a one way, the other way. It's give and take, right? But it has to be, sometimes people want it. you know, a one -way relationship.

25:12 They want everybody to give one way. For me, it's... You have to give. You have to be willing to go both ways in a relationship. But it's really just... At the end of the day, it's just listening. I think people don't feel heard these days more than ever. I think... It's trying... I get sick of people that think they have all the answers, that think they know. And there's just... If we sat down and listened to other people and understood other people... what they were going through. We don't all live the same situation. We're all living our lives in our own way. We all have different life experiences that form our value system, form our perception of life.

25:53 And I want to understand everybody's perception on this. I want to understand that. I've changed my perceptions on divorce. I remember thinking, man, they went through a divorce. Man, that's not good. It must be wrong. Something must be wrong with them. So having been through it, it's like, I'll never judge somebody else again in that, or other similar situation. But it's just listening and understanding. And you've got to get rid of the judgment. You have to get rid of judgment. I mean, I love what you're talking about here, because what you're saying is part of the reason why I wanted our podcast to be called what it is, the idea of Yes And. Because when you're trying to build a relationship, if you will be curious to hear what their perspective is, Part of that's validating that perspective to say like yes, I hear you right. Mm -hmm not saying no. No, I disagree or Yes, but where you're you know, we've called the butt sweep right where you're really sweeping away what they said Yep, given your perspective, but it's the yes. Okay.

26:50 I understand where you're coming from I understand what your perspective is and Here's my perspective. Here's something that might might give a little more color to the situation or also, you know Here's something could could build for the future built help to build this relationship. And so You know, I think as we stay curious and are willing to listen to people, it really does help build those relationships. But it's also taking the time. Like you said, it's taking the time to talk to somebody and really listen, ask really good questions that are curious questions to try to understand them better. And that's not always easy for people. I think sometimes it's easy just to be lazy, you know? Hey, how's the weather? How's your week? you know, that's kind of what we all revert to and it's because it's easier and it's comfortable. But really willing to like find out and ask deeper questions can really help to build those relationships. You and I both know Dr. Godfrey, right? Superintendent for Jordan School District. And we've had the privilege the last couple of weeks of giving out these educator of the year awards to schools in the Jordan School District. And one of the things that struck me about Dr. Godfrey, who I've known since junior high school, I had him as a teacher, is his ability to do that. Every time he's given an award, he'll have done his homework, he knows why the person's getting the award, and he knows what the nominee said about them. And so when he's talking to them, he mentions it every time. And then when he sits and talks with them after... all the pomp and circumstance

28:22 you can see that he's connecting with that person and he's done the same thing with me again i had him as a teacher like 30 years ago right like it was a long time ago every time i've interacted with him he acts like we've Stay in close touch since then that he'd like makes me feel seen right and it's such a gift and it's such a skill It's the same thing of why you've been successful as a mayor because of that ability in those moments to Connect and have somebody feel like you really care about them before we jump back in Can I ask you a quick favor if you're enjoying the journey so far? Will you like rate and subscribe to our show it helps us reach more people like you? We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality. So when we jump back to this idea of the Lion King and some lessons there, maybe set the stage for us. And I want to hear more about the lessons that you learned from Lion King. So even though probably most people listening will have seen Lion King, set the overarching kind of 30 ,000 foot view of the storyline. And then I want to hear more about the lessons that you learned from specifically Mufasa and Lion King. Right. So for me, when I watched Mufasa, you know, and I went back, it was, for me, it's not even the whole, like, I love that Lion King was one of my first, I remember that was one of the first Disney movies I saw. Early 90s? Yep. In the theater. Loved it. Right. But Mufasa's always, there were a few scenes I'd always seen in. some quotes from Mufas over the years, right? In leadership trainings

29:52 or whatever, right? So just the way that Mufas, I remember the first impact was as a dad, right? It was how he, you know, when Simba and Nala, you know, take off and leave the, you know, go to the boneyard or whatever. Yeah, yeah. The elephant graveyard. Yes. And, you know, probably on the verge of dying, right? Of being, you know, and so he shows up and the way he handles that, you know, sends Nala home and... you know, and then, you know, I'm disappointed, the typical, I'm disappointed, but then he took it, took a responsibility and that happening as well, letting that happen and then immediately, like, you know, he could tell, somebody you could tell he was disappointed, but it wasn't this angry, it wasn't this, it was just that leadership of, I'm disappointed, son, but then instantly they started rolling around and playing around again, right? And that's, I remember my dad being that way and my dad was just so, I never felt punished by my parents, you know, it was You know that disappointed but you can do better type of thing and that's led into others You know all sorts of other things just about his leadership role how it was about I think too many people too many times a leader wants to get to the top and be the gatekeeper Yeah, right. I think Mufasa for me Mufasa saw the bigger picture and his whole goal was to elevate everybody around him and Create this, you know bring people along it wasn't to As we've said, dictate. It wasn't to tell people. It was to bring everybody along together and bring that whole kingdom together, elevate it all together.

31:20 And that's just some of those things with Mufasa. I've looked back, and even I've watched it a few more times getting ready for this. I've learned more and more from those situations. Just his leadership and quiet, just powerful leadership, but quiet and just dignity and respect. Just such a great movie about leadership. Honestly, you know, I think I think we see in there that he's showing the respect to the other animals in the kingdom right and Obviously, that's the example for us is like when we have other people we interact with other People in our organization our neighbors the people around us showing them that respect and understanding the the role they play and whatever it is we're doing is So key because then we understand the value that they're bringing especially when we think about like in an organization if somebody is in an organization if we understand the greater purpose if there's mission clarity right for the organization and Then we see the role that people are playing in that mission the overall mission boy, it's a lot easier to be like, oh, I really value that person because I know the role they're playing in the organization. Like, that's not something that I can do. I don't have that skill. That's not me. I can play my role here, but I want to be supportive of what they're doing over there and what this other person is doing in this other place over here. And in a city, I think that's also vitally important because like you talked about, there's so many different things that go into running a city. Like, it's crazy how

32:50 many different things there are. and you have to interact with so many different roles, I'm sure. What have you learned from that, where you've taken these lessons from your past and from different things you've learned from, sounds like your dad and other things, how has that helped you in building the quality relationships with the different, even people that are working in the city and that need to be able to function, have confidence in what they're doing, even if they've got problems and stuff? Tell me more about the lessons you've learned as you started doing that more. Well, one of the first things I did when I took office was we were almost all new at the time. We had a new management had just come in, new city management had just come in. We had a pretty new council at the time, only a couple of holdovers, so we had some new members on council. So really, I recognized that we needed people around us as a city. We couldn't, all the things we were getting hit up about, more roads, more infrastructure. bus routes in the city, just all the things I recognize that the city can't provide buses, that has to be UTA. So I need those relationships with UTA.

33:57 The state has funding sources, I needed those relationships with our legislators, with our partners. So it instantly became this outreach to understanding where the partners were. And I saw other leaders around, and of course I won't say names, but I saw other leaders around that would go into some of these meetings and... super critical what they were doing and how they weren't doing enough. These are just people, too, just doing their best. There's limited resources. There's limited money. There's limited time from all of us, from all these partners around us. And they're just humans, too. They make mistakes. So it became this listening, understanding where we could have good partners. And for me, it was just about collaboration. It just had to be about understanding where they were coming from, what their role could be. And I watched from four years ago when Harriman wasn't, truly this wasn't a criticism to anybody before me, but we weren't really at the table. Like Harriman wasn't in many discussions as far as at the state level or at the county level. We weren't getting a lot of outside funding. Our staff was amazing doing what they could, but for four years before me, we had lacked a leader at the top. It was kind of this, everybody was doing the best they could, but there was this vacuum of leadership in the city. And so really, My biggest accomplishment, I feel, is four years later, we are at the table in almost everything, right? And we don't get everything we need out in Harriman. We don't get everything we want. We don't agree with everything that happens at the state level or at the county level. But we're in a much better place in those discussions to bring resources to our community.

35:29 That kind of stuff doesn't get seen by residents. And I don't expect it to. I don't care, right? I really don't. That's not what I'm doing it for. But Harriman's now a player in the state. We're the 14th biggest city in the state, which It's crazy to me that little hair man from when I moved out there is now a player But now we're looked at we're respected in all the discussion. I think one thing that's emblematic and it's it's not the only Accomplishment by any stretch. I actually just think it's emblematic of being at the table, which is the Trader Joe's you got Yeah, which sounds silly but like it's a big deal. Mm -hmm every city wanted that like one city doesn't want Trader Joe's right everyone does right and Because because of what you guys are building there you were a player at the table where that was a possibility and you guys were able to land it and That doesn't happen I don't think if all those other things aren't happening if you're not building those relationships across the board To bring to that community the things that they want and that they need to help those The people in that community thrive. Yeah, I look everybody you know, looks back at how did you get Trader Joe's? Like honestly, I did not talk to Trader Joe's one time. Like I didn't.

36:39 I never had a conversation with them. Like you said, we had just created an environment in Harriman where everybody wants to be in Harriman. We see it with the growth. Everybody loves it out there for the most part. There's a lot of, we're on track with the businesses. We've been hyper focused on supporting our local businesses and supporting that. And I think people noticed, I think that's what drove Target and Trader Joe's to come. Yeah, they saw that excitement going on in our community and for sure Absolutely, I think that's I hope that that played a role in them. Yeah landing in our city Yeah, it's it's just keeps coming back to me as we continue to talk It's just so much like for me the difference between the leadership of Mufasa versus scar. Mm -hmm, right Mufasa in helping the circle of life work. Well is what helps all facets of their community Function correctly right where everybody's striving the circle of life's working same thing for Harriman Whereas you look at scar and once he becomes a leader like it all dies off like it's terrible.

37:38 It's all dark Right is this dominating thing people are not valued for their roles and it's just really bleak thing But but that's not it's not just some story that actually happens in in real life when when you have leaders that just operate Without relationships that they just want to dominate they don't value the other component parts to what makes it work it will eventually die off and It's very short -sighted and it might feel good to somebody because they've got power and they can exert that power and you know We have this kind of natural man inside. It's like oh, I'm powerful When in reality, it's the humility of Mufasa It's the humility of leaders like you like dr. Godfrey that really helped those relationships get built that really helped the overall entity function the way that it needs to through the collaboration of leadership. One more quote I want to read to you. I want to get your take on it. Yes, love it. So I think for me, one of the most famous quotes in this is actually after Mufasa's dead, after Simba goes through his exploration, right? Hakuna Matata, right? No worries. And then suddenly Rafiki appears and leads him to the water where he has this interaction with Mufasa's ghost. And then he looks up in the sky and Mufasa's go says Simba you have forgotten me No, how could I you've forgotten who you are and so have forgotten me look inside yourself Simba You are more than what you have become. You must take your place in the circle of life. How can I go back? I'm

39:09 not who I used to be Remember who you are. You are my son and the one true king Remember who you are It's such a good It's just such a good line. Give me your take on that Oh my gosh, right. That's a tough one because I go, I don't even go to my leadership role in that, you know, in the city, in that space. I go back to, you know, even going, and maybe this isn't where you were going with this, but I look back and where, you know, I remember going after going through my divorce and then even when I did the stay at home dad thing, I thought, well, this is kind of, I've plateaued, I've hit, this is going to be my life, right? This is, and again, nothing. Nothing wrong with it right absolutely nothing wrong with it, but it was this acceptance that okay life wasn't what I Thought it was gonna be and that's we're still happy like we're still happy very fortunate very you know blessed in every way materially everything so there's no want or need there, but it was just this kind of acceptance and then as I've grown into this role and seeing what we can do as a city like Like we can do like there's something more like I've realized this new. I don't think I Without going through that, I don't think I'm where I am today. Yeah. Right. I don't think that now I'm still every day I have to look around and I do I look around and think we're onto something here. We are onto something. Personally, I feel like I'm onto something. Our council's onto something.

40:29 Our staff is onto something. Just every day is a wind around our city right now, just constantly full of winds right now. And it's we've got this momentum and this like we are we're seeing ourselves in that reflection right now, right? Herman always the people out there have always been amazing and you know resourceful and Just desire to serve and now we're all recognizing it as a community. We're all realizing this and so it's just it's just that realization that Man, we can do this, you know, I can do this Right. It's I still have those days, you know, there's still those social media comments. Oh sure yesterday I had one just even yesterday's, you know Got a this I got my first gubernatorial appointment from the governor reached out and appointed me to a statewide board That that's my first for me kind of a big deal for me. Yeah, what board is that? It's called the air quality board. Okay, so it's kind of a comp, you know Again, some people sure sure, you know, it's a why it for me. It's not a partisan thing that to me It's I think we look around we know that we need yeah to improve our air around here But for some winter time our air quality is bad in this county, right? But I've had pushback about you know, taking this you know, liberal role, right? And it's just, anyways, so I had somebody pipe up, I did an announcement about it, and somebody replied back yesterday, said, your voice is polluting the air. Why don't you just shut the hell up, right? I'm like, oh, goodness. So these, I mean, those are still the moments I kind of shudder and think, well, maybe I should. But then I have to step back and think, no, I've used my voice for too much good. I've used my skills for too much good. I can't. I

42:02 think there's a couple of ways to look at this. I love your take on that. And I wanted to get your take not going and having any kind of preconceived notions. I wanted to hear what you had to say from it. And I love what you're saying. I mean, part of it is the journey we all face much like Simba, where sometimes we do forget who we are. But we also then start to realize how those experiences shape us. I would submit that your experiences from Being divorced and co -parenting, your experiences from having a career and having it really take off and then stepping aside and being a stay -at -home dad, right? And then stepping into a role. You understand more members of your community than someone who had just stayed married the entire time, never was a stay -at -home dad, never had those experiences, who wouldn't necessarily be able to relate to all the people that you can. Because experiences doesn't mean that we wish a divorce on anybody, right? I said that time. Oh, yeah, I got divorced, right? It was hard as a divorce attorney. Am I a better divorce attorney? So went through a divorce. I actually am. Absolutely. I understand it better. I understand people going through better. And so you have these experiences where now you can understand your community and how all the things in your community affect the different people in their roles. We're in Utah. There's still lots to stay home moms. Right? This is still still a thing.

43:17 And so you understanding what that was like? what it's like to set aside a career where you could have been going for a while there and the emotions you went through and what it's like to be a stay -at -home parent I think really helps to inform and make you a better leader and so remembering who you are at the core of like I've had these experiences and I was able to learn from these experiences that's part of it the other component that I love here too is also looking at it from the perspective of Mufasa in guiding his son to that. You know, when anytime we are privileged to have a leadership position or leadership role, how are we choosing to guide somebody? And can we remind them about their value? Because you talked about that earlier.

43:59 You talked about that you just have this small role. People need to be able to do their roles in the city. And can we elevate them to remind them? of what their true worth is, to remind them of what the overall mission we're trying to accomplish is that they can feel empowered to step in to their best self. I said, I think it's huge. And it's a great example of both sides of that, both Mufasa and Simba, and what that together can look like and how that can impact people. I love that. OK, so now let's take you to a fun section. We're going to do a quick what we call this or that. Okay, so you know your opinion might be controversial And you're gonna have to defend it if it is. Okay, so here we go. Okay, Simba or Mufasa? Oh my Mufasa. Yeah, I'm figures right at the beginning of the conversation.

44:51 I was like, okay This is probably a softball for him because it's gonna be Mufasa, right? Okay scar or Hades. Oh my god from Hercules. Oh Man Scar I don't know He's a good villain. He is. He's tricky. He's conniving. His song, Be Prepared, is also like a pretty classic Disney villain song. Absolutely. If it could. And just, I mean, yeah. Anyway, he stills to show in a lot of ways. Sometimes that whole middle section of that movie. Anyway. Oh yeah. It's some great humor that's laced into it as well. Absolutely. Okay. I don't know if you're a big Disneyland guy or not, but I threw this question in here. We're going to say Disneyland or California Adventure.

45:32 Oh man. You know, it's changed as the, as my, I think Disneyland is great for the younger, but then as we got, they became teenagers, California Adventure was, cause it was the classics over in Disneyland. Now it's Midway Mania and, you know, and, and Credit Coaster, right? It's, so it changed, right? It's morphed over the years. So, yeah, it's totally true. I've had that same experience. I still got a little, she's still five. So there's definitely things in Disneyland we still want to do for her, but the rest of the kids, oh, it's Disney California Adventure. For sure. Like the Spider -Man ride is amazing. The Guardians of the Galaxy ride is incredible. And we have, so we have a ton of fun over at Disney. Soarin'. Soarin'. I could do Soarin'.

46:13 Soarin' is so good. I could ride that every day. And apparently, the big news is they're going to do an adjustment for the 250th celebration of America. And there's going to be a new Soarin' over America. Which i'm still to see and i'm disappointed because we're going to california for spring break in a few weeks Oh, you are and we're not doing disney. Oh, you're not my little guy wants to do universal So where I feel like i'm going to be cheating on disney by being at universal, but uh this opportunity to see this but Anyway, this is like harry potter. That's why he wants to go harry potter and super mario. Yeah Oh, and you know what that super mario land is great. Have you been there yet? Not yet We went like a month after it opened. So there was still some kinks and yet It was phenomenal. They actually did a great job with it. And then have you been to the Harry Potter area in Universal?

47:03 Yep. The butter beer there? Unreal. Get out of town. It's so good. Yes. And like, it's not, I've had it in some other places and it's not the same. We went to the, what is it? The Cursed Child, the play in New York City. And so they have butter beer. They serve there in a bottle. Oh no. Like, it was terrible. Horrible. Give me that Butterbeer Universal. That was amazing. And they had the regular and the frozen version, right? Like the slushy version. And you got me wanting to go to Universal now. Love that. Okay, zoo or aquarium? Oh, man. Depends on the kind of time of year. Totally true. Like, aquarium is a winter thing for us. And then the zoo is the summer thing. Have you been to the new section of the aquarium here? That they just opened up?

47:50 Oh, man. It's really cool. Fun area. It is fun. I'm still impressed that with this addition they did fifth largest aquarium in the United States in a landlocked state in Utah. It's like, are you serious? That's amazing. And I remember where they started in that old grocery store over in Sandy. Well, and in fact, where they actually started was out of the back of his van. Oh, I heard that. I've heard that story. Out of the back of his van, he just was passionate about taking animals to students. and would drive all over the state doing it. And then that's like, it just blows my mind that that's where it came. Talk about having like a mission clarity, right? And be able to build from there. He's a great leader. Beach or forest? Oh, beach. I love the beach. I love me a beach. Okay, now this next question is based off of our experience a couple of days ago. So I threw this one in, also knowing that you speak Spanish. Tacos or enchiladas?

48:44 Oh. Enchiladas, I'm a okay. Let's go on a guy covered Covered in cheese and enchilada sauce and yeah, I'm not a come not a I'm a picky eater in some way So I don't do lettuce and tomato. I I can do lettuce and tomato separate Okay, but not on a brewer not on a taco. So my tacos just a plain Yeah, not just a hard shell and yeah, so my enchilada. Okay, isn't you have to worry about that? Yes, and he's got a dream. She's a bunch of goodness a lot of oh, yeah Yes, it's yeah. Yes, Angela's one when I have her lunch today. I can already tell I love it. Okay. Here's our rapid fire Okay, so first thing that comes to mind. Okay, okay favorite Disney movie Mighty Ducks. Oh Such a good one. Oh and when we were growing up Mighty Ducks was Incredible all we talked like I just want I wanted to play hockey. Yep. I was like, yeah, let me do the flying V I want to be on that one to be scoring that goal, right? Great movie. Yep favorite Disney song Oh my gosh. Hakuna Matata is up there, honestly.

49:42 It's a good one. But man, they're so singable. Aladdin. Some Aladdin songs. And then Pocahontas, The Color of the Wind. I heard that the other day again. I don't know. It resonated the other day. It's a very good song. It was about what? A lot going on. Anyways. Yeah. So great songs. Favorite Disney princess. Oh my gosh. Boy. Jasmine. Jasmine's great. Jasmine. Look, when we were growing up, yeah, I mean, Aladdin and Jasmine, dude, they were cool. And she was cute, right? I'm admitting it. When I was a kid, I was like, oh, Jasmine. Yes, and I had a sister who was 12 years younger than me to the day. And what I remember is she won another princess. So I remember that was the first one I bought her, was the little figurine. Oh, that's cute. That was the first one I bought her. So that will always be something. Oh, absolutely. Have a special place, for sure. It's the nostalgia, right? Favorite Disney hero or heroine? Oh, my word. Whoo, man, these are good. I love Buzz Lightyear. I go to the Toy Story. That's my year. My that was a different Pixar came that was a whole other You know the Buzz Lightyear Woody like Woody probably actually Woody and that actually more than buzz Oh, you know Woody Woody goes through a really good like hero's journey. Mm -hmm now he really does where he has to grow because he is the leader he's the undisputed leader and Yet he has to grow to be able to appreciate What everybody else can contribute and how he can lead more effectively? Yeah Yep, and he does too, right?

51:08 Yep. Okay last two And this is not Disney related favorite book. Oh my word favorite book Honestly, it's da Vinci code like I go back I'm a kind of a history that way I like that kind of history but with the mystery like I don't know that book I've read several times. Love it Super good. Did you read angels and demons? Love that book, too So I'd read I had read Da Vinci Code and loved it and loved the movie and then when I was driving back from law school at Waco Cuz I had to drive back when law school was done with all of our stuff Technically we got wise in the way back which is we had 18 wheeler take this stuff back to his head rubber car, right?

51:50 It was a long drive and my ex -wife at the time. She did not love driving. Mm -hmm. And so I had to drive the whole way and I put Angels and Demons on audio CD and the drive was a breeze because I was so into it the whole drive. It's a long drive but it made it go so much better because Dan Brown's a very good writer. You just get sucked right in that story and then you just can't edge your seat can't wait till it's happening next. We'd stop for like gas or something like couldn't wait to get back in the car. Oh I love that. Okay and the last one ultimate dinner guest dead or alive. Oh my word. You know again I didn't I wasn't a big politics guy, but I always wanted to hear the perspective of, I don't know why, but John F. Kennedy. I look back and I wish it kills me hard that he lost his life so young.

52:40 I think he had so much, but just I would love to have understood his, I love his early life. I love his story. I've always wanted to hear more about him and wish he would have been around more to tell more of his story. We went to Arlington. cemetery on a way back from a Disney cruise, wouldn't you know? Right. And we flew through DC, but we had a layover about 10 hours. And so we took the kids because they'd never been there just to a few things in time we had and one of them was Arlington Cemetery where he's buried. And I was kind of explaining to them like, you know, this was the present we had and he got killed in his office. And it was cool for my kids to be like, you know, kind of be very respectful of what that was and all the other things that were there. We saw the tomb of the unknown soldier. um the thing that they do there it was just this really sobering experience but also like a great experience for my kids to have that surprisingly they really liked and appreciated that's really good um okay so to kind of kind of wrap up here i mean what i what i love about our conversation uh mayor is is just how i think you've really highlighted well the importance of building the relationships in a way that helps people feel heard and seen that helps people feel validated that You get really curious about what they've got going on and what their lives are like and what their experiences are like. And when you do that, that's where I think is the difference in being able to build relationships. People who are those networkers that we all kind of cringe at are people who are not curious. You know they want something from you. You know they're going to be a taker. And takers are tough. And the way

54:11 that we can effectively build relationships is don't be a taker. Just, you know, be curious. You know, want to look at the contributions that we're making. much like Ken Mufasa did, where he understood the circle of life. He understood how all the component parts work together, and then was able to effectively have conversations, you know, where he still had a hold to a standard, like with somebody had a hold of standard, they showed an increase in love and kindness afterwards, right? I think was really key. Yep. So if you were to give people three actionable takeaways based on some of the things we were talking about, three things that they could put into practice today, or this week to build better relationships, to be able to have better influence in the positions they have, to have a greater sense of belonging.

54:54 What would those three things be? Love that. First one for me is have a conversation with somebody you don't agree with. Like just have a conversation with, because it's hard, it's absolutely hard, but have that conversation and do your, use your, I love your little intro, your yes and. Don't blow it off, listen. Just try to understand what their perspective is. If you have one of those a week, honestly, I try to put myself in one of those situations once a week. So have those. Sit down with somebody you don't necessarily agree with. Two is just live outside yourself. You just have to live outside yourself. Constantly serve. It goes back to my mission. I remember when I was on the mission.

55:36 If you have a companion you don't agree with or struggle with, serve somebody. Just get outside yourself. If you're going through something hard, Don't focus on yourself. Like I think it's easy when we're going through something hard. Don't focus on yourself Serve get outside yourself and realize that somebody else is going through something Probably even harder than you and I think that puts in a perspective so perspective and then it's just Being real. What's the word? There was a genuine being genuine Just anybody can tell when you're not being genuine with them. I believe that you got to be real You got to be genuine and if you're don't be fake because people will see through that You've got to be genuine when you're meeting with somebody, when you're talking to somebody, when they're bringing something up. They're coming from a place of their perspective. They're coming from a place that we laugh that sometimes somebody is concerned about a pothole in their city. For us, we deal with those all day, every day. But for them, if it's in their neighborhood, that's a real issue for that person. That's their life every day. So you've got to be real with people. And you've got to just understand that's their reality.

56:39 And that's what you've got to try to help with their situation. Fantastic. Oh, it's been such a great conversation, Mayor. I really appreciate you taking the time. I know you've got a lot going and you're probably have a whole lot more today as you're doing a lot of things and preparing things. But I really appreciate your perspective and you know what I've learned through the conversation today about how I can. Be more genuine in in the relationships that I have and that I'm trying to build and how I can try to Connect better and really focusing on that person and letting that conversation when I am be really with them I think it's really easy for me to sometimes get distracted with a lot of things that I got going But just taking those moments like really focus on on those individuals and build those relationships and collaborate So really appreciate your time today. Thank you. It's been fun As you lead this conversation remember that yes the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.