Cinderella and the Courage to Find Joy | Kamille Bauer on Grief and Happiness

0:00 Well, I was born six years later, and I was born with a birth defect. So I have three fully formed fingers, my thumbs and one pinky. When I saw Frozen, it was from a very different lens than probably most people. Sure. And Elsa's motto, right? Conceal. Don't feel. Don't let them in. Don't let them know. Without putting words to it, that's how I grew up. That was my inner voice. He says, you didn't know this? And she goes, well, she always wore gloves, but I just thought she had a thing about dirt. That's what she says to him. I just thought she had a thing about dirt. And I'm like, doesn't that tell you that people aren't thinking about you as much as you think they are? And yet we spend so much time thinking about other people that that's kind of the problem. And I reached my hand out to say, okay, let's go. And the little girl in the front went, ew. And she pulled back when she saw my hand and she wouldn't hold my hand. And it was like I was a five -year -old on the playground again. All of those feelings of you are. You're not good enough. Nobody wants to be around you.

0:57 We may not get to pick the challenges, the trials, the struggles, the deformities. We get some of that. Some of that is just what we're dealt, right? But we get to pick who we become. Welcome to Yes And Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today. And we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Well, welcome, everybody, to another episode of Yes and Land. We are very excited for our guest today, just a wonderful human being with really a very inspiring story of her life and some trials that she's gone through, some strength that she's shown and inspired just tons of other people, and specifically, I would say, especially girls and women. dedicated a lot of time, additional time on her own to speaking engagements and presentations to help inspire people to step into their own, to embrace what makes them different. And so very excited about that conversation today. And we're going to take a look at that topic through the lens of a wonderful Disney movie, Frozen, right? Everybody loves Frozen. So excited. So welcome, Stephanie, to the program. Thank you.

2:19 Thanks for having me. So as we kind of dive into kind of where we're at here, so kind of set the stage for us for kind of what you've experienced in your life and take us back to young Stephanie, where was it, New Jersey? Yes. That you grew up in New Jersey. And maybe explain a little bit about what made you different and what that was kind of like when you were... younger and started to realize that maybe you were a little bit different yeah yeah yeah so um i grew up in yeah south jersey south jersey south jersey it's very different than north jersey so i feel like i have to make that distinction is that what's the what's the difference between the garden state right it's that that's south jersey north jersey is very new york new york is very like an extension almost of new york so it's just an industrial vibe versus the the farmland so it was very farmlandy okay side of jersey so important to get good definitely important to understand you know what the difference was yeah yeah yeah so i grew up out there in a in a big um family and i am i like to say i'm the jan brady i'm the i'm right in the middle of eight kids eight so i had this dynamic and i say that only because it it kind of lays a little bit of this um groundwork but my yeah i'm number five out of eight um my older brother just above me number four out of eight came with um a really significant physical problem. He was born with

3:49 cerebral palsy. So he is he was born two and a half months early and has always struggled with a lot physically. Right. He's incredible. He's an incredible human who has not acknowledged in any way, shape or form that he has this problem. Right. And he has just killed it. So I grew up with this incredible role model of. I can do hard things, right? And I watched him do really hard things. Well, I was born six years later, and I was born with a birth defect as well. And we can get into the whole wording of birth defect. I have a whole thought on that too. That's why I actually didn't want to use it because I wasn't sure what wording to use for that. Isn't it funny?

4:30 And it's what it is by definition, but it has this negative connotation to it. So that's actually something I've had to work through. But I was born with a birth defect only on my fingers, so my hands. So I have three fully formed fingers, my thumbs and one pinky. So superhuman pinky. I can take you down with this pinky if I need to. My kids know it. But the rest, so my left hand, I have like nub. fingers i guess you would say to describe it and then on my right hand my middle three fingers were webbed together completely and so when i was five i went through a surgery where they separated those they waited till the bones were like strong enough to be able to um move on their own and be independent from one another so i went through that they grafted skin in between and i started from a really young age just learning how to do me right um so And honestly, if it's okay, I'll dive in like right out of the gate with Elsa. When I saw Frozen, it was from a very different lens than probably most people. Sure. Because I connected things that really resonated with me individually and my story. But I love that like Elsa, the opening scene, right? She's using this magical ability to create joy and fun with her sister.

5:54 She has no inhibition. She is playing, right? And having the best time with what she can do. with her defect right absolutely and she didn't know that it was something to be afraid of she didn't know it was something that people would be afraid of or that it would be not socially accepted or and i didn't know that either um it wasn't until i got into school kindergarten first grade second grade that i had kids make fun of me you know and they're kids nothing was really mean spirited but it's impactful at the same time it can be brutal So much so. And more than that, it's not like I was raised with a bunch of nasty bullies or anything, but even the looks you get, the ew comments, you know, things like that. People don't want to accept different sometimes. They're afraid of it. So it resonated. And I think the whole narrative of watching her put gloves on her hands to hide this thing is, I mean, talk about an actual like.

6:55 apples to apples for me um i grew up hiding my hands and pretending like i didn't have this problem if i didn't if i didn't see it it wasn't there right and and elsa's motto right conceal don't feel don't let them in don't let them know um i without putting words to it that's that's how i grew up that was my inner voice yeah um so did you wear gloves a lot to try to so i didn't Because you don't walk around with gloves, right? But I will tell you that in wintertime, I loved wearing gloves because what I would do is I would get, functionally, mittens were better. I'll just be honest. If I needed to function, mittens were best, right? But if I could put small gloves on, I would take cotton balls and I would stuff the fingers of the gloves with cotton balls.

7:48 And then I would wear them. And I felt like I was more beautiful. I felt like I was more normal. I would get to pretend like I had long fingers and that I was the same as everybody else. So those are things that I never talked to anybody about. No one ever, I don't know if people, like, I don't, I don't, people don't notice as much as we think. I mean, there's a moral to the story right there that people don't think about us as much as we think that they're thinking about us. But I didn't know that. Sure. I didn't know that. The gloves and Elsa's whole approach to handling her defect just resonated with me. And watching her figure herself out and figure out how to navigate this defect for good is something I've done. And not calculated or intentionally, but just developmentally. When I look back, I can see. You know, I have a million stories and things that have created and shaped me and my perspective. But yeah, Elsa is just she's she's me in some ways. Right. And so as we as we kind of take a look at what her journey was. Right.

8:55 I mean, like you said, you identified she's having fun at first on her plan. She's making a snowman. She's doing all these fun things. But then because she didn't fully. understand or appreciate what what that power was or how to control it then something bad happens right and because that happens and suddenly like you said like concealed don't feel don't let it show um and then we have this just like it's such a good song and yet it's so brutal right do you want to build a snowman yeah you know and it's it's interesting you know elsa and and with her parents decide that she needs to not be around on at all right and then she sings this just like sweet song anna does where she's just so desperate to be around elsa and i mean i i wrote down some of the uh some of the words from it because it's just like um in the song and anybody's watching this probably knows the song because it's such a famous one but um in there anna says we used to be best buddies and now we're not i wish you would tell me why do you want to build a snowman it doesn't have to be a snowman go away anna okay bye So I think it's an interesting thing to look at.

10:05 In your life, did you ever have times where you shut other people out because you were afraid of what it meant to be different? Absolutely. Absolutely, I did. I would recluse sometimes. And again, not intentionally, but looking backwards, you can see those periods of life where you didn't put yourself out there. So I don't I don't know that I necessarily shut people out where I didn't accept them. I didn't put myself out there to be loved. Yeah. I didn't put myself out there to be accepted because I just assumed I wouldn't be. Yeah. Right. And I thought a lot about like the parents approach because right. Life experience is what taught Elsa. Yeah. This is not OK. And life experience in a different way is what taught me. You're different. Hide it. Don't don't let people see. And then you don't have to worry about. You don't have to worry about explaining yourself or that you're different. But that was my inner voice. I actually had great parents that taught me that you can do whatever. Well, we'll figure it out. Everything's figureoutable.

11:04 And you will have limitations. I think it's important to note that we sometimes say this narrative that you can do anything you want if you put your mind to it. Or if you work hard enough, you can. That's actually not true, right? There are limitations. It's okay to say. There are certain things I won't be able to do. But I can figure out most things. And I can figure a workaround for most things. So they weren't the problem. And no one around me actually said anything to create that. It was that inner voice that told me, no one's going to accept you. So, yeah, I did. I think I removed myself from things and didn't put myself out there. And one of the things that I know about you is that you play the piano.

11:46 I do. Walk me through what that looked like for you to make the decision that's something you wanted to do. Because I think some people might have been like, hey, let's try something else. Yeah. Like maybe that's not the thing. Yeah, yeah. And for some reason you decided, no, I want to do that. So what did that look like? What inspired you to be like, no, this is the thing? So I often say, I think I came with that from heaven. My parents tell stories of me as a toddler, not even being able to speak, getting up on the piano and just pounding on those keys for. A long time. And then saying, I subbed that song. So I just was drawn to the piano from before I can remember. So I do think it was something inherent. Music, anyway, has something that's inherent for me. I grew up watching my older sister play the piano. I idolized my older sister, Elsa Anna. She would play the piano. on Sunday afternoons, and I would get a blanket and a pillow and lay at the base of the piano on the floor and just listen to her play. I loved it. So I wanted to be like her, I think was the initial reason that I said I want to do this. But I always loved music and was drawn to the piano specifically.

12:54 And so I was probably about 11 or 12 when I went to my mom and said, I want to take piano lessons. And kudos to her, right? Because at the time, I didn't think anything of it. But now as a mom, That could have gone seven different ways, right? And she found me an amazing piano teacher that she said, I know this woman. She's going to teach you in a way that works for you. She basically took me on day one and she said, let her figure out what she can do. Just let her go, right? And so the sweet piano teacher who will always have a special place in my heart sat me down and said, can you hit an octave with both hands? If you can hit an octave, we've got this. And I can. Barely. My right hand, it's a little tricky.

13:39 So you'll sometimes hear wrong notes if I have to do something big with octaves. But I could do it. And so she didn't focus on fingering and where to, you know, traditional where to put what note gets hit with what finger. She just let me figure it out. She taught me the notes, taught me to read. And I only took lessons for a few years before we moved from New Jersey to Utah. And by the time we moved from Utah, so again, like 12 -ish. And then I moved to Utah at 16, and I was accompanying the a cappella choir at Bingham High School. Wow. So I dove into it. When I tell you I spent a lot of time at the piano, I loved it. Did you have to learn how to play it, like, substantially differently because of that? Like, you know, I hear about things, and I don't know a ton about playing the piano, but a Suzuki method is one method where you hear something, right, and you learn what it sounds like so you can do it. Did you have to learn what things sounded like to be able to make adjustments so that you could play things the way that you could? You didn't have to make adjustments at all. You could just do it exactly the way it needed to be. No. I mean, I have a sister -in -law who plays the Suzuki method, and I am so envious. That is like real deal piano player. I sometimes say I'm a fake piano player. I did not learn the theory. I just learned how to play. So I don't play by ear.

14:57 I am very much I need the notes in front of me to be able to read it. But I just learned how to play it. So I can't speak to a lot of the theory like you would imagine I could. In fact, I took AP Music my senior year. I dropped the class because I was like, I can't do this. Even though I can play, that was kind of where my interest stopped. So I didn't learn any specific method. I kind of learned my own method, I guess, right? Yeah, absolutely. And embraced it. And obviously did very well in it. I mean, if you're accompanying the choir there for it, you can't do that if you don't have some skills. Yeah, I did pretty well. Yeah, you did pretty well. That's pretty impressive. Okay, so I want to read this quote to you from somebody that I just think. is is terrific and a terrific example of some of these things we're talking about do you know jamie kern lima no so she was the founder of it cosmetics okay and basically i mean kind of the overarching story i guess of her was that she had decided that she wanted to create cosmetics in a different way that would be not for the traditional like has to be for the magazine person cosmetics right that always has to the person has to look this way with this particular skin type and with a certain level of skinniness and she was like no like i have some skin conditions and um i'm a little bit bigger and i want to have cosmetics that appeal more to that and she started out of her garage started selling on qbc built this this brand up to being just huge and then i believe they ultimately sold to I

16:29 think it's L 'Oreal, but so she, she's amazing. Like she's got an incredible story and incredible book. And she, she said this, she said, hiding your uniqueness might feel safe, but you won't ever be able to impact and serve the world the way you're created to like, isn't that so good? Give me your take on that. Well, now tears are going to come. And I didn't think that would, um, no, that resonates. That's big. That hits the, um, the driving, you know, what drives you to do what you do. That hits that for me. Impacting the people around you and making their lives better because you're in it is a big deal for me. And so that resonates big time. I love that.

17:11 And you being able to embrace that you are unique. Oh, absolutely. And whatever the official terminology is for your fingers, I mean, it's, I think, unique. I think that's a better way. It's unique. It's unique, and we all have it. When I speak, like you mentioned before, I speak to different youth groups whenever I can or groups of women. I've even spoken to groups of young men. It's a message that resonates and is applicable to anyone. We all have the things that we're hiding with gloves, right? We all have things we're putting gloves on for, and when you can figure out how to use those things to, Make yourself stand out, not for the attention of it and look at me, right?

17:58 Your why, when your why is not about yourself, but about other people, you connect with people on that uniqueness. And it's an immediate vulnerability where you become safe. You become a safe place for people because you get it, right? And every one of us has something. Yeah. So you bring up the why. Yeah. Are you... Are you familiar with Simon Sinek and the why? So I was not until our conversation, but I did get the book. It's on my nightstand. I'm going to start it next. So that's where we did talk about that. I mean, and you're just hitting it, the nail on the head with a why. And that's something that Simon talked a lot about, which is a why is always outward facing. It's about the impact that you're going to have on others, right? And that's what drives us to do something. greater beyond ourselves.

18:52 Because ultimately, I mean, we don't live on this earth alone. We're not solo creatures. We're social creatures. We're meant to be around other people. Can I share a quote with you? Please. Okay. Yes. I brought a quote because I'm like, when you kind of mentioned the why, right? I have a quote that is so meaningful to me. Pope Francis said this, so I don't even know when. It couldn't have been too long ago, right? But he said, rivers do not drink their own water. Trees do not eat their own fruit. The sun does not shine on itself and flowers do not spread their fragrance for themselves. Living for others is a rule of nature. We are all born to help each other. No matter how difficult it is, life is good when you are happy, but much better when others are happy because of you. So good. And that is like. When I tell you the experience I've been through, and I go back and I look at Elsa, this is another comparable, I feel like there is such an issue when you start. The words of the song, okay, I'm spiraling here. The words in her song say conceal, don't feel, don't let them in. Be the good girl you're supposed to be is in the lyrics of that song. So I did that.

20:05 I performed. I was. I did everything I could to the best of my ability and without meaning to created a full life of other issues, right? Of perfectionism and of comparing and the ugly side of that. And so as an adult, I had to unpack that. And I still struggle, right? This is stuff so many people struggle with. But me addressing this issue, right, or navigating it created another one for me. And Elsa has the same. issue right and I have had so many people not ill -intended but over time tell me you know oh you're just you care too much about what people think or you're a perfectionist or you're trying to be too perfect and and that has never felt like true to me and yet I see it so I have struggled and and I have I've worked with with in therapy and and I've come to realize um there's a fine line between perfectionism and then living to serve and show up for other people, right? And it comes down to that why. And I don't know what Simon Sinek, how he approaches that. And if I'm going into his narrative there, but that is what I have determined is it depends on what's your motivation, right? And the motivation for me is not about me. It's about this. It's about...

21:32 showing up and impacting other people's lives for good. And so I have found more confidence. Instead of trying to overcome this, do I have perfectionism? I've learned, no, I just want to live a life that impacts others for good. That's my why. And so I've settled into myself again, you know, and feel confident in why I do what I do. But that's not intuitive for others sometimes if you don't resonate with that. Let's try and experiment. Yeah. Okay. Ready for this? I don't know, but let's do it. So I'm going to ask you about two different things. Okay. And I'll explain as we go. Okay. And then we'll see. We'll see where it takes us. Okay. What is your happiest childhood memory? And like a very specific memory. So not a generic one, not like I loved it when we would go to the park or something like a very specific childhood memory that you can relive with me right now. What's your happiest childhood memory? I'm sure I have others, but the very first thing that just came to mind is what you're going to get. I loved whatever time of year strawberries come into season. Is that like May, April, May? I don't know. My mom would check me out of school. She'd let me come stay home from school and we would go pick strawberries out of a field, come home, cut them, wash them and make strawberry jam. And I would miss school for that. And it was kind of this when a family of eight. You don't get a lot of one -on -one time with a parent. And I had some really cool experiences with my mom doing things like that.

23:01 And so I picture myself in the backyard with bushels of berries coming in the door and working with my mom to make jam. Okay, amazing. And the first thing that came to your mind is exactly what we're going for. So that's exactly the right thing. In your professional career, when did you feel a specific occasion? When did you feel the most proud? of the work that you were doing, a specific day or a specific project or thing that you worked on. At any of the jobs you had, because you had a 20 -year career at Southwest. Yes. You were the COO of Betty's. Not COO. I worked with the COO. You worked with the COO of Betty's, and now you're moving into a new position with a new organization. But you've done some great things, and you've worked in some great organizations, right? Southwest is notoriously a great organization for employees.

23:58 And so during all those different times in your professional career, when were you the most proud of what you did? I'm trying to think of a specific to give you. What I can tell you, there are a lot of different small situations where I came out feeling like people felt safe with me, which impacted the business for good, whatever the project was. Give us one. I was able to connect with somebody. Gosh, I'm trying to think of something that doesn't give somebody's personal information away. Sure. Everything I can think of is about an individual employee having a struggle, not even about a work project. I'm thinking about the people. I'm thinking about a situation where I had someone who was going through the loss of a spouse and navigating big, big, big things while still working. And so the project we were working on was still happening. She was killing it. Incredible, right? And so, but that wasn't the focus of our conversations. Focus of our conversations was her. And how do we support you? And what do you need? And because that's how I approached that as a leader, I watched her shine professionally. And why does that one stick out more than maybe other projects you did that were successful, but somebody didn't have a trial or a struggle? Why does that one stick out? I think that goes back to my why, right? My personal why is attached to that story

25:28 because I'm impacting someone's life and allowing them to be the best version of themselves and allowing them space to grow and to see what they're capable of. And that is so rewarding to me, not only as an individual, but as a leader in any organization. And then without fail, success comes in that project when you can focus on. the people first. That's been my experience. When you give someone a space to feel safe, to feel vulnerable, to talk about whatever it is that they're going through, because sometimes these gloved situations are a short period of time, right? I'm going through a divorce. I'm going through a pregnancy that's difficult. I'm going through the loss of a parent or a sick parent or a move at home or financial struggles, whatever those vulnerable personal things are, impact our professional life. So much, right?

26:23 So when you allow space for that person to be human and still shine, they show up for you tenfold professionally. It has been my experience. And so these two stories, you see the through line. You see the through line. You're your mom. And you're fighting amongst eight kids. And there's a lot going. She pulls you out of school. And she picks strawberries with you. And she makes jam with you. And this project you do together, it's not about the strawberries. It's about the relationship. And that's what you're doing. You have this project, and it's still important.

27:04 You've got to do this project. But you're finding the individual, and you're finding what they need. And you're pulling them out of school, and you're making jam with them. And it's magical, right? And that's what Simon Sinek talks about with a why. Your why. if everybody can truly discover, it goes back to something that you found in your childhood, that the happiness that you found and it, and it, and it carries throughout your life and it becomes, it is always outward facing. It's, it's what you're doing for others and the way that you're impacting them, the way that you're making them feel. And so, sorry, that, that, uh, that was, I mean, that's just strikes, strikes me right at the heart, right?

27:44 Like it's just, That's what a why is all about. And when we have a why that we have really identified and that we can go back to for ourselves individually, but also for our organization, that's where it becomes something far greater than ourselves and where an organization can have real impact. One of the things that Simon Sinek says is people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And so when an organization forgets why they do it, then they're not going to have the same impact. on their end client user because then it's just a transaction. Totally. This is where your value -based system comes into play, right? Because no one's above the values. Once you define that as an organization, I think you've got to stay true to that. Good times, bad times, whatever comes your way. And that's, I think, what resonates with someone on the outside watching you, right?

28:37 For sure. And when an organization has locked in well what their why and values is, it's also it's a way to weed people out either before they come in the first place but also once they're there if somebody doesn't harmonize with the why of an organization um then it's not a good long -term fit and then it ends up you know not not continuing um okay i have another quote to ask you about okay this is from james clear who wrote a book called atomic habits and he said every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become No single instance will transform your beliefs, but as the votes build up, so does the evidence of your new identity.

29:20 Okay, so give me your take on that. I love that. The idea of reinventing yourself based on who you want to be rather than who you feel you already are or have to be, right? It's huge. And I feel like that's something we all probably continue to reinvent. My husband and I were just having a conversation because we were moving. And so we have this, even a new neighborhood, a new street, you have this little moment to reinvent yourself for a second. And there's something so exciting about that. And also pressure filled. And you're like, well, how do I want to show up, right? And meanwhile, you're going to be who you are, right? But the thought of being able to reinvent and be greater than you are is so exciting to me. And I think that's that growth mindset. Yes. Right? The ability to. To be able to say I never have everything figured out. One of my favorite, favorite authors, Adam Grant. Oh, yes. Think Again and Hidden Potential.

30:17 Girl, we are right there. That Think Again book is just my favorite. It's like a study guide for me. I have it marked up all over. The idea of never really knowing something for sure because there's always more to add to it creates this. this environment to, to do exactly what that quote is speaking to, right. To be able to reinvent and, and achieve what you aspire to be and make that real. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think what I love so much about think again is it really shifted my view on changing your mind, you know, and, and because, you know, and in, in society, especially say in politics, which I hate, but in politics, like If somebody changes their mind, it's terrible. Like, oh, no, no, no. This politician can't change their mind. Nope. Nope. What they said initially has to always be that. Right.

31:09 And so we're taught that you can't change your mind. Right. But like in reality, as we learn and grow, we should absolutely be changing our minds all the time. Totally. And it completely changed the way that I look at decisions that I make and things that have happened and things that I want to do. Because if I will take that moment to like, OK, well, let me analyze this like. The things that I was thinking, was I actually wrong there? Do I actually need to update what my thoughts were on this thing? And the answer is yes. It's actually something they try to teach us in law school. They teach us the Socratic method, which is like you challenge the things that are said and you do everything you can to poke as many holes in it so that you can eventually reach truth, right? That's kind of the idea.

31:55 And so as I've done that more, it's really helped me to kind of expand what things I think about. And I love this idea too of reinventing yourself because with the growth mindset, we always have this opportunity to, again, it's a vote for who we want to become. We don't have to be stuck with who we are. We can look at things differently and we can continue to strive to grow and become something new and different and better. Absolutely. And I think one step further from that is we need to allow space for other people to do the same. Oh, very good point. Because to your point in politics, right, we now view this person that changed their mind or their quote from 10 years ago that now they're a liar or they're a hypocrite or they ping pong to whoever the audience is.

32:36 And then we immediately don't trust them. Well, if you applied that to everybody, we would all be walking around with no one trusting anyone, right? The reality is with new information, we should be open to changing our minds, right? We should be willing to change and grow and learn. And we need to allow space for other people to do the same. And we need to allow grace when someone does do something. I think that's upsetting to really not assume bad, but maybe consider their why in it. Because we usually don't know, right? And when you can do that, you immediately soften whatever the... the narrative that you're telling yourself about that person. And again, it's not usually about you, right? It's usually something about them. I have to go back to Frozen for a second because this just came to mind.

33:24 But one of my favorite quotes, it's the dumbest line. You probably didn't even notice it. But when, okay, Elsa goes off to the mountain, right? She's gone. And Anna has Kristoff and she's super frustrated with them and she's trying to find Elsa and they're having this great dynamic. And he's learning about... the ice and the hands and what happened. And she says, he says, you didn't know this. And she goes, well, she always wore gloves, but I just thought she had a thing about dirt. That's what she says to him. I just thought she had a thing about dirt. And I'm like, doesn't that tell you that people aren't thinking about you as much as you think they are. And yet we spend so much time thinking about other people that that's kind of the problem. Like, it's so funny to me that Elsa's like literally hiding in a mountain. She's ashamed of everything.

34:09 And her best friend, her sister that knows her the most is like, I don't know. I just thought she had a thing about dirt. Like she doesn't even consider anything bigger than this simple. Yeah. Maybe she has an aversion to being dirty. That's why she wore her gloves. Right. So I guess that just comes to mind when we talk about like. Absolutely. Brene Brown calls it assume positive intent. Love that. If we can do that more in our lives, we're going to be better off because it gives room for grace. It gives room for understanding. It gives this space for just, I think, so much more enrichment in our lives if we'll assume positive intent from other people and not that they're just out to get us or they're out to be mean to us or they're out to do horrible things.

34:55 Yeah, they're working on reinventing themselves the same way each of us, right? It's great. Our common goal should be growth. for sure so i have i have another portion of let it go the song written down but i think fits well here and and i'll get your get your take on it too um after the initial portion of the song kind of identifying some of the things that were holding her back she then says it's funny how some distance makes everything seem small and the fears that once controlled me can't get to me at all it's time to see what i can do to test the limits and break through no right no wrong no rules for me i'm free So for you in your life, when was that? When did that happen where you were able to say, like, I'm going to embrace this. I'm different, and it's great, and it's wonderful that I'm different, and I'm going to be free and not let this thing hold me back, but I'm going to use it for good.

35:50 When was that for you? It still happens for me. Love it. I'm still not done with that. Okay. It is a process, and it's a mindset process. So the first time I remember it happening is with the piano. So what are you, like sixth grade, seventh grade with that 12 -year -old? And I learned I can do this and I'm good. I have a talent here. And I wasn't afraid to play. It became this thing that like I'm this special person now because I can do this. And you're starting to get some attention for what you thought was negative and bad and ugly. You're getting positive attention for it. So it wasn't the reason I did it. But when I saw that happen, I gained some confidence, right? So that helps you to break past that and think, well, what else can I do, right? What else can I figure out how to do? And it gives you every win, every little step and win gives you a little more confidence to try something else, right? So my life around my hands and my abilities or inabilities, right, have been a series of. Putting myself out there and trying something brave and figuring it out.

36:59 And then something happens and it's like it levels you. It takes you four or five steps backwards. And you have to keep going. And I'll give you an example of something that set me backwards. And this was when I was like in my 30s. But I was at church working with the little primary children. And we were getting ready to do this program, right, for all of the parents. And I reached my hand out. This line of all the little sweet, probably seven -year -olds, six -year -olds. They were young. So maybe even younger. And I reached my hand out to say, okay, let's go. And the little girl in the front went, ew, like this. And she pulled back when she saw my hand. And she wouldn't hold my hand. And I've got adults and people, friends, strangers, all watching this. And she wouldn't take my hand.

37:47 And it was like I was a five -year -old on the playground again. It just flooded right back. all of those feelings of you are deformed. You're ugly. You're not good enough. Nobody wants to be around you. It's so impactful. I wish I could describe how quickly that takes you back. And then there's a mindset that has to happen. You have to kind of gussy up that courage again and get back to all the experiences you've had that you've done good and that you can do hard things and you can figure it out and you're good enough and you've got something to offer. So it's a process, right? It's a total process. I love actually that Elsa does the coronation, right? She's talk about courage. She is standing there like I was standing there, you know, at the piano and I'm going to do this. And that prayer, like constant in her mind, help me through this, help me get through this. And she did it right. She felt like a million bucks and then boom, life experience teaches her again. It's not safe.

38:45 So we go through this. It's a process. But I think that's helpful because. I think sometimes when people hear stories like yours, it's like, okay, you overcame it and now everything's perfect. And it's not. It's the same idea of it's a growth mentality. We are going to, throughout our lives, continue to experience trials. We're going to experience setbacks. And when we can embrace that and understand that's the case, we're going to give ourselves more grace because it will happen. We're going to mess up. We're going to make mistakes. Absolutely. And we're all imperfect. And when we, though, can then look at it differently and use that to continue growing, say, okay, I had this setback. I had this failure, and it hurt, and it was hard. This thing was difficult, and now I'm going to move forward. Yeah, and I learned from it rather than letting it define me, right? And now I'm moving forward. That's the key. That's the key. Because if we just let it define us, then we're going to be in that fixed mindset, and we're not going to be able to continue growing. We'll never put ourself out there again, right? You become that. Inhibited child again where you hide and yeah, it's exactly right. Yeah, so in one of the things that I think many other major lessons we have from frozen is What is it that actually helps us move forward and helps others move forward and I think it's captured really well in the song that the little rock people are singing to Kristoff and Anna, right? They're just like, it's the funnest song, a fixer -upper, right? Because Kristoff is just this giant fixer -upper. But this is like a really

40:18 actually deep, and I'm going to read it to you and then I'll get your take on it. And later in the song, towards the end, it says, we're not saying you can change him because people don't really change. We're only saying that loves a force that's powerful and strange. People make bad choices if they're mad or scared or stressed, but throw a little love their way and you'll bring out their best. True love brings out the best. So for you, what role has love played in your life? Both of people throwing a little love your way and then you being able to throw a little love to somebody else. Yeah. I mean, it's played.

40:59 That's all of it. That's the root, right? Surrounding yourself with people. that love you without condition, and then learning to allow yourself to be loved. I think that's really key. It's a two -way. And one was much easier than the other for me. I think for most of us that's true. But it cuts down to everything we've talked about, right? The why behind it, the relationship building, the purpose that I just said resonates with me is to impact others' lives for good, right? Love is at the root of that. It is. And I have found that's the magic. That's the magic is when you can love people around you. And that's hard.

41:41 It's hard to do when there are people that aren't maybe treating you the best. But when you can step back and look at them and say, what are they afraid of? Because what their action is that just hurt me or what their words were, the bully that just made this comment, the boss that just dismissed me in a meeting. The friend that forgot this big event in my life. These are normal life things. They're not usually rooted in animosity or pointed at hurting you. It's about something they're facing. And they're afraid. They're scared. They're sad. They're working through something.

42:22 So when you can look at somebody with empathy and with that mindset, immediately love takes over. And your heart is softened to be able to look at them and see them as a person and a human and not any other name that might come to mind. And it's hard. That's hard to do. But that is, I will say, maybe a gift that I think I, again, developed either young or came with because I feel like I'm pretty good at that and being able to look at somebody and say, I'm not going to hold this against them. And there have been even people that really hurt me. And I don't feel animosity. I don't feel anger. I don't hold on to things. I feel sad. I feel worried about those people. And I want better for them because I know it's not about me. And it can be a real challenge to take that perspective, but it also can be one that makes all the difference. Yeah, it takes some time to get there, you know. You have to allow yourself space to work through those things and feel the hurt or the anger or the jealousy or whatever it is. But I think the quicker you can pivot back to a positive mindset and shift with love being your anchor and your guide, it's just, it makes your own life better.

43:39 Why would you not want that? For sure. Yeah. So in all the different times that you've shared your story and you've given presentations or firesides or all of these things, I've got to imagine that there's been a time where someone's come back to you and told you about some kind of impact you had in their life. Is there any that you could share with us? I have had many, many, and that's what keeps me doing it. That one person, I show up sometimes to an event and I'm like, there's, I don't know, two or 300 people in this room. And it's a little scary. It can be intimidating. And you think, I'm not running a marathon with no legs here, right? Like there are people doing much harder things and much more remarkable challenges that have been overcome than this. But if I can say something that impacts even one person, especially when I'm talking to like youth, teenagers. where confidence is a game changer. That is the number one thing I think we have to focus on with our youth, teenage kids at home or at church or wherever we might have an impact is that their self -confidence and their self -worth has to be healthy, right?

44:54 Because that's going to shape who they are and how they live their life. If I can say something in that setting that helps one person feel like they're enough or that they're... They're hiding something with gloves that maybe doesn't need to be hidden with gloves, right? Then I've done my work. I've done my job. It's worth anything else. So that's why I keep doing this. And I welcome it every time because of that thought of one person. And I have had many people over the time I've done this that have sent me a card or a note. I'll get a text. I've gotten a couple texts randomly from a number I don't know that says, hey, I got your name. your number from this person. And I just wanted you to know that you changed my life. Something you said is what I needed to hear at that, that moment. And so I have kept all of those things very close to my heart. It's pretty great. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're picking lots of strawberries and making lots of strawberries. Yeah, you are. And you know that the reason we started this podcast is to try to have positive impact on people.

45:56 And so getting to hear inspiring stories like yours and hopefully more people get to hear it. because it'll be out there. It's just, that's why we're trying to do this. We just, you know, more goodness, more love, more kindness in this world, I think is what everybody needs. Okay, so you ready to move to some fun segments here? Yes, here we go. So we're gonna do a little this or that, okay? So you just go with whichever one you feel like and you might have to defend a controversial pick. So we're gonna see how this goes, Stephanie, okay? Ice Palace or Arendelle? Arendelle. I hate being cold. And I just said I don't want to be alone, right? She's alone in the ice palace. Give me friends and people and parties. Okay, I love that. I love that.

46:43 Building a snowman or ice skating? Ooh, that one's hard. Because the snowman led to Olaf, which is really fun. So I want to say that. But I do love ice skating, too. I don't know how I'd pick. That's fun. In downtown Daybreak this year, they had the little ice skating rink. Did you go to it? I did. I did. So fun. It's so fun. You can't really get some speed in that little rink. Yeah, because it's really small. Yes. You want to get speed, you got to go to the Olympic Oval, right? Where they had the Olympics and now the Olympics are going to come again. I'm sure they'll do it there again. You can get some real speed there. Though that's a little scary. Yeah, but the Daybreak one was almost like Arendelle ice skating. It was like a small little vibe. Just cute little like, you know, fun. And my six -year -old was five at the time when we went.

47:27 And loved it. You know, because nothing's too fast. It's all just kind of small and cute and fun. So I guess I'm saying ice skating. Okay. That's my answer. I'm here for it. Olaf or Sven? Olaf. I love Olaf. I love Sven too. Sven's great. I have enough Sven in me that I need the Olaf balance. So I say Olaf. I'm with you there. The fun. Anna or Elsa? I mean, I feel like. Anna. I got to say Anna's who I aspire. Maybe Elsa's who I feel like I probably am and I want to be more Anna. Sure. So Anna. Anna's great. Beach vacation or visiting a city with history? Beach vacation. Okay. You're a beach gal. Yeah. I don't shut my brain off very easily. So if you put me physically in a space where I can't do anything else, I actually relax. But it takes a minute.

48:20 So they like the beach. Okay. I'm with you. I just got back from a dual trip to DC and yeah, my brain didn't really shut off. I mean, I was just like soaking up. Like I'm here. It's, it's America two 50. I'm visiting all these amazing things. Like, but my brain's going the whole time. It wasn't like a. I need to take some time away kind of thing. Beach vacation, though. I just did two weeks in Europe, and we were all cities. I mean, we were hopping. We were walking 20 ,000 steps a day. So there's no relaxing. So give me a beach. Give you a beach. Sunrise or sunset? Oh, sunset. I don't want to get up early if I don't have to. Oh, is that why? Yes, sunset. Okay. I think a sunset is much more beautiful.

49:03 But I love getting up early. I'm envious of that. In fact, I mean, it was... i i told my wife that so i've started running a bit more and so when we go on vacation i try to run and so i ran from our hotel to the national mall around it and back and i told her like that's top three for me it's central park new york city it was waikiki beach in oahu yeah sure and national mall and national mall running but doing it when the sun is rising is like there's something so fresh and the start of a new day that i just i soak up like it's that's when i actually get to think i love that that's when i get to clear my mind and that sunrise kind of becomes that i'm envious of both i aspire to be i love run i admire runners i really do i have friends that are runners but i can run to the block and pass out. Like, I just, I have to build that. And I know it takes work. I've just not done it. And getting up early.

49:59 My husband is like, go to the gym at 4 a .m. to beat the people and then to have that fresh start of the day. And man, he's trying to get me. He's getting me there a little by little, but I just can't do that early. And I love it. I'm a 415 guy. Yeah. Got to get up early, beat everybody else. You're probably working out next to each other. World's just mine. Nobody else in the world exists. Everybody else is still asleep. Exactly what he says. I'm there with it. OK, this is one that I don't know. I just thought maybe I'll ask this because my wife would be the one who asked this question. But heels or flats? Oh, I was a heels girl all the way until like this last year, maybe. I'm just getting too old for the heels. I just can't. But I am.

50:41 I have a closet of heels. And I always any opportunity to wear a high heel. I loved it. Yeah. So heels. I think, I think my wife likes heels, but she's tall. She's like five, 10 and a half. And so when she puts heels on, she's even taller. So I think a lot of times she'd prefer like a very short heel or flats, even though she likes heels. Yeah. I think the comfort level, I'm getting to a point where I'm like, I'm over it. I just need to be comfortable. So I'm still, but man, I love a good heel. I just think there's something really, I love it. For sure. Okay. Last this or that, um, a girl's trip or a solo adventure. Oh, it depends on the girls and the trip you choose. I'm going to say girls trip because I, and I, and I do this in my perfect world. It's like, I, my, I have a sister, I have three sisters and every now and again, the three of us, the four of us will do a trip and I love it. But almost every year, my one sister that's local and my daughter, who's now an adult, we'll do a trip a weekend away. And man, that is the best reset time. We laugh like I don't any other time.

51:42 I love that. That's a reset in itself. Yeah. I'm definitely not a solo trip guy. Some people are and they claim it's great. On this DC trip, I had two different things I was there for. The first half was an ABA conference. And so my wife didn't join me for that because I was going to be in classes a lot. And so after the classes, like I was there by myself. And so I walked around, like I walked around DC and I went to a couple of shows. I'm like, oh, this solo trip stuff is for the birds. I don't like it at all. And so once my wife joined for the second half, I had a much more fun time. We just did fun things together. I love that. That says a lot about the two of you. That's great. We have fun for sure. Okay, here's a rapid fire. So first one that comes to mind. Okay. A lot of Disney stuff, but we'll see. We'll give you a little preview there. Favorite Disney movie. It's so hard for me to pick a favorite. At the moment. Encanto is the one I put on. I'm with you. That's my current fave. I tell people I know it's recency bias because I know that's a thing. But I love it. I still love it. I do too. I can watch it because my girls love it and I can watch it with them anytime and enjoy it. I can put the songs on and we love it and we all sing to it even though I'm a terrible singer. We'll sing anyways.

52:55 We don't talk about Bruno. Give me some. We don't talk about Bruno. Who doesn't want to sing that over and over? It's so fun. I just love it. I love everything about it. So great. Speaking of songs. Favorite Disney song? So hard. Again, I'll say right now. I don't even know if I can say. Oh, my goodness. Over time, I'd say the Brother Bears soundtrack. Really? As a whole. That's a hot take. Yeah, isn't it? Because that movie did not do well. No? No. Well, my kids may be the ages they were, but I love the Brother Bear music. Interesting. Welcome to the family. See, I... Here's a little preview. Yeah. I don't really know anything from it. Oh, my goodness. I know. I don't think I've seen it since it came out. You should probably go put it on with your kids. They're going to think it's ancient and they're not going to like it. I'm going to have to go watch it. My kids love it still. But I love the Tarzan music. Maybe it's Phil Collins I like. Is that what it is? Because Tarzan music is great. Phil Collins is so great. Yeah, I love those. Those are like they just stand the test of time. I'm with you. Phil Collins was True Colors, right? Not in the movie, but just like in general. Did he do True Colors? wasn't that cindy lauper who was it okay maybe it was maybe it was i remember him singing it and i love that i'm sure he did and then so when tarzan came out i was like oh i know phil collins is we're gonna have to look this up i know we're gonna have to right we're gonna give credit where credit's due that's right totally favorite disney princess um i love rapunzel She's my current fave. She's amazing. Yeah. All of these have a caveat of current. Oh, yeah. It'll change. Because it does.

54:25 Yeah. Rapunzel. Our tastes change over time. Favorite Disney villain? Ooh. Villain. That's a tough one. That's a really tough one. My favorite Disney villain. Maleficent is just iconic. So I'm going to say her. That's the one I get the most. Do you? People love Maleficent. Yeah. People love her. That is, I don't know that I love her. As a villain. But I think she's got a cool background, dark story, broody. Oh, totally. You know, I almost said Ursula because there's something about Ursula that's, yeah. Ursula's pretty good. Anyway, yeah. The one that I get a lot too is Hades. Because he's just funny. Because he's great. Yeah. Like, it's his job. Like, he's the god of the underworld. What's he supposed to do? Right? Like, that's his job. That's what he's doing. But he's funny. You know, he's cracking jokes. Doing the best he can with what he's got.

55:18 That's exactly right. He's filling his role well. He totally is. I love it. He totally is. Okay. Person you most admired growing up? Ooh. That is not Disney related. I know. I decided to take the last two are going to be curveballs. I got to say it was my sister. My older sister growing up. And still I do. But growing up, I didn't know a whole lot of other people. And I just thought she was it. She's pretty great. Amazing. And then last one I'm borrowing from Adam Grant. He does this on his podcast every time, which is Ultimate Dinner Guest. Ultimate Dinner Guest. Dead or alive. Oh, dead or alive. Do you know who I'm going to say? And it's, again, a current one. It'll probably change tomorrow. But Gail Miller is like my current favorite person. Really?

56:04 I have listened to her speak a couple times recently. I've just learned a little bit more about her and what she's, she has a fascinating story and she's so genuine. So much of what we talk about and her why. I just think she's remarkable. I think you could probably make that happen. Somebody's got to be able to make that happen. I think we've got to put this out there now, and we've got to make this happen because that's somebody you actually could. I could. She's here. I could figure that out. She's here. I just think she's a remarkable human. Oh, yeah. She's a philanthropist, kindness. She's hard, but love drives her. There's something about her that I'm drawn to for sure. Yeah, amazing. That's a good one. Well, what we like to do at the end of every episode is we like to give three actionable takeaways to our listeners. And we like to give them specific things that somebody could do today or this week to start making some changes. In this particular instance, things where they could be embracing more of what makes them unique. And in so doing, doing good for others. So what are three specific things we could give to people that they could do today or this week? This one's hard, too, because I have a lot. Because I've spoken enough that I leave takeaways, right? So I spent a little time actually knowing this part, and I kind of went the frozen route. So I have three very frozen -related actionable things. So the first one

57:36 is, don't hate me for it, but let it go. Let the expectation from other people that's driving you go. Let the perfectionism to perform and to be what you think you're supposed to be, let it go. And just be you. Like that is, I know cliche is this song, but it is such a real statement that you need to let some of that stuff go. Figure out what's holding you back and let go of it, right? There's number one. Love that. Yeah. Number two. I'd say discover your Olaf, your inner Olaf, right? Olaf is a piece of Elsa. Totally is. He is that uninhibited little child that just had fun. He doesn't know the sun is going to make him melt, right? He doesn't care that it's going to make him melt. Somebody is going to help me figure that out. I just want to be in the sun.

58:29 I don't care if I can play the piano the same way as everybody else. I just want to play it. So somebody help me just do that and I will do the work. That is the magic. It's so good. I've never looked at Olaf that way, and it opens my eyes. That's who he is. He's so good. She needed to find him and that piece in her to be able to say, wait a minute, hold on. There's good in this thing that I've decided was bad. So find your uninhibited child and whatever it was before life experience taught you that something wasn't good enough. Hold on to it. Love that. Keep finding it. Love that. Yeah. And then the third one ties in with love being the root. And I would say find your five people, right? Have you ever heard?

59:20 This was back in the day. I had to look up the guy. I'm going to find his name because I want to give credit for this. But 1980 -something, Jim Rohn, personal development author. in the 80s but he taught about you become an average of the five people you hang around the most right you've heard that and i think and then it's like put yourself around higher achieving people to raise your average right and i would say more than about your performance the kind of person and character you want to be right we get to shape that we may not get to pick the challenges the trials the struggles the the deformities, we get some of that. Some of that is just what we're dealt, right? But we get to pick who we become. And so surround yourself intentionally with the people you want to be like, love them without guile and without judgment and without any type of parameters, love them for who they are, be forgiving and open, and then allow them to do the same for you. Because that's where magic happens too, right? That was the key for Elsa and Anna was love. 100%. Yeah. So let it go. Find your inner Olaf. Identify your five people. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Oh, it's been such a pleasure. Such a joy to visit with you. So inspiring for who you are, for what you do, for the goodness that you put out there in the world.

1:00:48 It's been such a great addition to what we're trying to accomplish here. and putting positivity out there. So thank you so much for being with us today. Thanks for the opportunity. I appreciate it. Of course. As you leave this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it or you can learn from it. So here's to learning and finding joy in the journey. See you real soon.