101 Dalmatians and Building Trust in Business | Erin Madsen

0:00 i took home this black lava rock from the island and i packed it in my suitcase didn't even think about it went home and then literally ryan my life blew up and the divorce all went through within maybe six weeks so take me down the path of like where you see the lessons that we can learn from cruella deville in 101 dalmatians well first off she's a businesswoman ryan she totally is and she's Are we allowed to say badass? She is a badass businesswoman. I mean, she knows what she wants. She communicates her needs. We all have a little, I'm admitting it. I have a little Cruella in me. I'm going to tell you why too. There's just no rule book. The grief is love with nowhere to go. And there's just no way through it other than through it. And there's no timeline and it's not linear. It's going to be this big, crazy, beautiful life. And I'm okay.

0:51 And I'm here for it. Like that's just my life. Welcome to Yes and Land, where we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today, and we say and to the possibility, growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Welcome, everybody, to our next episode of Yes and Len. Very excited today because we're going to have a conversation with one of my very, very good friends, Aaron Madsen, who is just a lovely person and has a killer, killer podcast of her own. And it's called the Lay Low Podcast, right? To grow, you have to lay low.

1:35 Is that that's it? Yes. And it's a must listen. Honestly, she's very vulnerable and honest in the podcast. And while I personally enjoyed listening to the episodes, they're there. and and really gotten deep in a lot of things too and you know we might get deep on some of those things today right um aaron's uh as many of us have been she's been through some things in her life and uh been through some vulnerable things that have helped her to learn who she is and to grow so very excited for us to dive into some of that today and get a little vulnerable but then also at the end maybe have a little bit of fun so welcome to the podcast aaron thank you ryan i'm happy to be here well first off what's your story of how we met Well, so for me, it was through a couple of people that we know really well. A good friend of mine, Sabrina, who is a member of the South by Chamber Commerce, we had been, along with Dave Peabody, had been in this business accelerator class together when I very first opened my firm.

2:35 And like when I needed all the help I could get, and I was there with other business owners who were either in a period of initiation in their company or needing to kind of break through and grow. And so I started to get to know Sabrina and David a little bit. And then it had been a little while, actually, since I had... really talked with them much. And I was just kind of having this pull back to like wanting to connect with more business owners and just having more people that I could like relate to. And I can't remember who came up with this idea, but they're like, Hey, we should do our own mastermind. And then both of them were like, Hey, we know this person would be perfect for this. Her name is Aaron. I'm like all in. let's do it. And so we decided to get together and meet and we met in my office and like hit it off. I like love talking with, with you and the two of them. And it was super fun for me and really rewarding for me to get to like. hear the wisdom from you guys as I'm like soaking in, trying to like get better and learn from you guys. And it was like, it was really fun that first day. I had a great time when we came here and visited. So that's kind of my, that's my version of it. Let's hear yours. Mine's probably more personal because hello, that is me. I remember like so much of that day, but yeah, Sabrina and I share an office.

3:47 So she and I had connected and she's a doll and she had come to me and said, Hey, I have these two guys that we're going to start a mastermind group. Do you want to be our fourth member? And I remember at that time how I did not feel worthy, first of all, to be in a mastermind group. And if some of our listeners don't know, a mastermind group is really where business owners would come together to tackle any sort of issues or brainstorm or really dig into the parts of your business that you have questions or don't understand. Because I think a lot of people out there think a business owner just has everything figured out where you literally just learn as you go. That's exactly right. And it's a lonely road being on your own running a business. And so I think for me, like having this opportunity to come in with three other people who own their own businesses. Ryan is a lawyer. Sabrina runs a mortgage company. And Dave does marketing and signs like actual like physical signs. And so we have such different businesses. But I can't tell you how much I have learned from you guys.

4:53 as a group and also one -on -one and a lot of times when i have a question one of you are the first people that i reach out to so but i do remember the very first time i met you our first meeting do you remember well i mean other than like being here at the office thank you we we love it we love we think they did such a great job when they did our tenant improvements when we first moved in but tell me what you remember from that experience what am i missing i remember being in my car before and being like Erin, who are you to even walk into this meeting? You have a baby business and you don't know what you're doing most of the days. And I sat in the car and I really was really nervous to come in. I remember walking in. Ryan has a gorgeous office and it smelled so good. And I remember going back to my office that next day and getting.

5:45 some sort of scent because I was like, what a difference it makes walking into this office. And so I took that away immediately. But I remember all being in the room and we took turns going around and explaining about our business. And we had to answer the question, what is the biggest pain point of your business? And this was at a time where I was engaged. I was working with my fiance and I had never felt so alone in a business or a job or anything. And I remember being in that room and when it was my turn, I didn't even think about it. I didn't even think about it, Ryan. I just like blurted out. I didn't even know you guys never had met you. And when it was, what is the. biggest pain point of your business, I said, I work with my fiance and he does not respect me. And I like, that was the words. Cause I went, I won't ever forget. And that's a vulnerable thing to say to people you don't know for sure. And it just like came out.

6:49 And I remember all of you just being like, okay, let's talk this out. Like tell us the situation. And I went into it and you had great advice for me right away. Do you remember your advice for me? the first thing you said i don't remember the first thing but i think ultimately part of it was like that might not be the best option to work with your fiance yeah you said if you want to marry him you need to fire him yeah and the other guy said too he had experience working with his wife and he's like at this point it is one or the other if you want to work together you shouldn't get married and if you want to get married you shouldn't work together and that was a huge That was maybe the first time I had said those words out loud to anybody. And saying it to you guys, you know, sometimes when you say something out loud, it makes it really real.

7:41 Absolutely. And we hold it for a long time because sometimes we're afraid that when we do say it, it will become real. But I think that's why also I love my podcast because I just get it all out. And the more you talk, the more comes out. And when I said that to you guys that day. I started more conversations with other people. I had an honest conversation with my parents telling them, this is actually what's happening. My therapist, I went to her and I said, this is actually what's happening. But you guys were the first people and it was such a safe place for me. And it really changed the road I was on because that ended up being a relationship that ended. And he did get fired and you helped me as my lawyer. Thank you very much. You got it. And I've been able to really rebuild and have a fresh start. And it's been the best decision that I could have made. And I just want to thank you for being there and having such good advice for me and just really saying, I got you. We're going to do this. And what a blessing for us that you were willing to, as Brene Brown says, like rumble with vulnerability because you did. You went into that. And even though you may have been nervous, you didn't show it. And you were willing to be vulnerable in a place where, thankful we had the blessing of being able to be there with you during that time, right? Because as you showed strength in doing that, you strengthened us.

9:10 Isn't that what's interesting too when we're vulnerable? Because it did, right? It helped us see like, okay, we all can struggle with things. But you know what? This group has got our backs. right we can go to this group with with issues that we're facing because man if aaron's willing to be vulnerable like maybe i can too right maybe i can't do maybe this is a safe place for us to be and it was really a rewarding experience for me to be able to meet the times that we did because that's really what it came i mean i talked with you guys about things that Sometimes you can't talk about with your employees, right? When you're trying to lead an organization, you can't wrap your employees into all the sometimes difficult things behind the scenes. If something is struggling or something's not going well, you need them to focus on the things they do and you have to carry the weight as the owner.

9:55 But if you can talk to other people about the things that you're struggling with, whether or not it's personnel decisions you have to make or people that you feel like you need to fire, but you've got to talk to somebody about it that's not the other employees. That became the real space for me that many times that's what I talk to you guys about. So I bring to you like, okay, guys, here's what I'm struggling with. Here's what this employee is doing. Here's what's happening here. How do I navigate this? And it gave me that space. And so your initial vulnerability opened up so we could then do that same thing, which was really beautiful. But then you also realize how quickly that every business has a pain point. Every business owner is feeling the same way you are. There's just a level of comfort in that, that you don't feel like you're alone.

10:35 And I know I love our little group. Definitely great. So, so here's a couple of things I want to know about you. Right. And I think I know to some degree, but I'd love for our listeners to hear a little bit about it. Like how, how did it come about that you started this company that you have? Because you had a history, I think doing some, it might even have been some, some kind of sales. Was it multi -level marketing sales or something? Yeah. And you were like. killer salesperson, like president's club all the time kind of gal. It was a skincare company. Yeah. So I actually have a marketing degree from BYU. I was a BYU Cougar. I was, um, I graduated married and pregnant. So I was a success story and MRS degree as they call it there. But I got my marketing degree and I really just dove in from right out of college. And I love marketing and I love sales. They're so hand in hand. But I was working in the skincare industry for an MLM and that experience I learned a lot. I'm sure. Because some of those same systems and processes that I use to run hundreds and hundreds of women selling skincare, I use the same thing for sales reps selling construction projects and solar and batteries and all kinds of things.

11:51 So it's been a good lesson to show me that business is business, sales is sales. It doesn't have to be as scary as you sometimes think that it is. But I was working in the skincare industry and I was dating this guy who was selling solar and he just was really unorganized. And I was like, hey, I can help. Maybe he didn't like that. But I went from being his assistant to being his boss. Shoot your shot, girl. I love it. Maybe that's why he's not here anymore. Maybe he couldn't hang. But yeah, that's really how it started was the organization of construction is so different than the sales process. Most salespeople struggle with operations. And so I came in and really built out an energy brokerage that we do a handful of home upgrades that make your home more energy efficient. And I run all of the advertising marketing for that. And then we sell each of the projects.

12:55 I subcontract everything out and we just give people a really. good professional experience and it's used local options and it's just gone really well. But yeah, it wasn't anything I was really passionate about. I was, I'm passionate about business and growth. This was just an easy thing for me to grow. Sure. What was it about sales that attracted you to sales? Like what component of sales is it that you really like? I love that the harder I worked, the more money I made. Because if you work for a company and you have a salary and you have your nine to five, you can work really hard and get paid the exact same versus working not so hard. Right. And I just, I'm a hard worker. I come from a really strong line of women who are bosses, both of my grandmother's own businesses and just went in it where. If I was going to work hard, I wanted to make sure I was rewarded. And I just always loved the flexibility of doing my own thing.

13:57 Being able to travel is important to me. And marketing and sales was an avenue I could do remotely pretty easily. And still, I still feel like I have more flexibility than a lot of people. Okay. So a couple more questions. I'm going to dig a little deeper here. Because I think you're right. It's a good answer when it comes to your ability to control what you can make because you work harder. What is it about marketing that you like? What attracts you to being a marketing major? Why that over a million other things you can do where you work hard? I think the creativity part of it, which we were talking, because I think my podcast also really feeds that creative part of me. That's why I started Laylow, because I was running a business and I was doing a lot of just like grinding and I wasn't feeding my soul. I just really felt like I needed to have a voice. I started writing a book and it went really well until I got to my divorce. And then I had a hard time navigating. How do I tell my story without it disrupting everybody around me's lives? Especially my ex -husband, who I care about that relationship and with his wife as well. So it was tricky with the book. So I put a pause to the book, switched to the podcast.

15:10 But the creativity of the podcast was what was missing in my sales job. And marketing is so creative for me. But as I have grown the sales side of the business and some of that marketing I've had to contract out, I used to do it in -house forever and ever. It's one of those things you do it yourself until you literally can't do it anymore. And once I pass that on and... outsource some of my marketing is when I was needing to feed my creative soul. So I think that just the creativity and realizing what makes a person tick, what gets their attention, how to solve a problem. That's all marketing is, is what's the problem? How do you solve it? Yeah, I love that. Hey, before we keep going, I wanted to take a second and shout out another show I've been really into lately. It's called The Wisdom of Walt. Didn't expect to get hooked the way that I did, but here we are. If you like what we do here, I think you'll really vibe with that one too. So go check it out. And when it comes to the sales component, beyond just the ability to control what you make by working harder, what is it about sales that attracts you? When you're thinking about selling something, what part of that is rewarding to you in that process? Probably solving the problem. For the customer, right?

16:31 Yes, for the customer. Because if somebody has their parents move into their house and then their grandkids move into the house and then they have this huge house of multi -generations, which is becoming very normal in our economy, then they have this humongous power bill because they've got everybody using the showers at different times and the kids aren't leaving the lights. Kids aren't turning the lights off. So they have a problem and they're looking for a solution. So that's when I come in and do like an energy audit and see different ways that we can improve the home and bring down those bills. So to me, that part is just problem and giving a solution and taking care of people also and doing things the right way. It's interesting because my son right now, he served a Mormon mission and got really good at knocking doors. For sure. So he got home. He lives in Utah County. And I was like, come sell for me. Hello, you just were selling for two years. Come sell for me. And he's so turned off by salespeople. And he's like, they're pushy and they just care about money.

17:35 And I was like, it really made me stop and think. And when he first told me all that, I didn't even respond because I was like, yeah, I could see that side. But the longer I sat with it, I talked to him later and I said, I get that. But also that's when sales needs to have good people that are in sales. You can't just have all this pushy people. And I don't consider myself pushy at all, but I just consider myself organized and I'm good at following up. And sometimes maybe somebody would think that's pushy. But to me, it's just like you had a problem. I brought you a solution. How can I take care of you? And to me, that's a positive way of selling and taking care of a client instead of doing something that's like unethical or dishonest or anything. There's no room for that in my company. Now, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. One of my guesses would be that. part of it for you might be the value of the relationship that you're building, because that's what I personally experienced with you, right? That you're very good at building a relationship.

18:40 You're very good at building trust there. And when you want to have a salesperson who is better beyond the surface and doing it for the right reasons, part of that is relationship -based. Part of it is being able to trust that individual. Is that a component of it for you? You say that, and I don't even think about that, but that's the whole basis of it. Because when I think of my clients, I'm problem -solving because I want to take care of them because I don't want them to. keep going on with a problem. I want to come in with some real logistical results that are going to take care of it. And the people are the fun part of sales, really, because you see all walks of life. And especially when you go into the home, which I go in and, you know, we'll check out the electrical and the roof and everything.

19:26 So I'm in people's homes. It's so fun to see people in their element. When you drive by like house to house in your neighborhood, you literally have no idea what's behind every door. But I do because I'm going into I'm going into the homes and seeing it. And it's just it's cool to see people in their home in that way. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think it's such an interesting way to think about sales because I think. We do need more people who are doing it for the right reasons, who are doing it motivated to truly help somebody. You know, when I do a divorce consultation, I'm probably not the best salesperson because I try to bring that to the consultation, which is I want to care about this person. I want to care about what the future of this situation is going to look like. And there's times where the conversation is, hey, you know, it sounds like you're actually not ready to do this divorce.

20:19 It sounds like you're so early on this. I'm happy to. give you information so you have knowledge. And then, you know, you come back if things don't work out. But honestly, I hope it does work out, right? If you can have this information, knowing this, now you can go work on some things and fix your relationship. Fantastic. And so in that sense, like I'm not the salesman that's going to close every deal, but I much prefer that our people here take that approach because we want to care about the clients that we have. Absolutely. Right, right. And I tell people when I sit down with them, I'm like, if I can't help you, I'm going to tell you, you know, but. I have a lot of solutions and I have a lot of options and let me just see what we can do. Yeah. So, okay. I'm going to, I'm going to wrap this into, we're going to start wrapping this into the Disney movie you selected, which I was so happy that you did because we haven't done it yet, which is 101 Dalmatians. And, and not just that though, I really, I'm very intrigued to see where we go with this because when I first started thinking about this and I told you it's in the pre -show.

21:16 i was thinking like okay we're going to talk about this with you know the dalmatians themselves pongo and perdita and the care they have for uh these you know 99 dalmatians that are there and their relationships there but then what i got from you before was really more this angle of looking at cruella and i thought okay this is interesting this is really interesting here so so take me down the path of like where where you see the lessons that we can learn from Cruella DeVille in 101 Dalmatians? Well, first off, she's a businesswoman, Ryan. She totally is. A hundred percent she is. And she's, are we allowed to say badass? Because she is a badass businesswoman.

21:58 I mean, she knows what she wants. She communicates her needs and she doesn't really care how it happens. She just knows that that's her responsibility to say what she wants and let the results come to her. But as a business woman, she is pretty fascinating, right? She is very fascinating. Whenever you have a really compelling story, part of that is if there's more than one level of intrigue for a villain. If you have a really one -dimensional villain, it's just not as compelling of a story. And I had never really thought of Cruella de Vil as a multi -dimensional villain, but really... as you've pointed out already she really is there's actually some good things that are there right well everybody has we like to think that we are all good right but we all have a little bad it's like a ted lasso quote i want to say like i love ted lasso but so good um we all have a little i don't know i'm admitting it i have a little cruella in me i'm gonna tell you why too but think about how she like walks into the room like she literally owns the place Dressed top to bottom, looking sharp, exactly how she walked out that door, looking exactly how she wanted to look. But she has a level of confidence, even though it doesn't always come across as something positive. But she's a confident lady, right? And so when you look at it that way, though, what are the things that if we're

23:31 saying she's got some good traits, what are the bad traits? What are the things that you're identifying that like, okay. Like, yes, she has some good things. Here's the problem, though. Here's the problem with the way that it plays out with what she's doing. The problem is she hates dogs. Like, that is the big thing that I am not like her because I like dogs more than people. There's no way I would ever harm any dog. But I do love fur. Is that bad? So I connect with her because I love fur. And when I walked in Ryan's office, he was like, I can't believe you don't have a fur on. And I said, if I would have known how cold it is in your office, Ryan, I would have worn my fur in August in the middle of a 100 -degree day. It's a little chill in here. It's probably 65 degrees in here. It's a little cold.

24:12 But I do love fur, but I would never harm a dog. But the fur thing comes from my grandma. Like, I wear my grandma's fur. To me, like, I mean, an old vintage fur is great because you don't have to feel bad about where it came from because it's already been dealt with and now you can just enjoy it. But I actually do want like a bobcat to the ground fur that is spotted like Cruella. And that has been something I wanted before we even talked about this. So I really do connect with her. Yeah. Don't judge me. Only the good parts. The good parts. Right. I think what you bring up is a really great point, which is. Look, it's what we call like the economy of man, right? Like we are dual beings. We do have good things and bad things that exist within all of us. And part of it is identifying what those things are and trying to bring out the best. For me, part of what we're seeing here is in what's the motivation, right? Like, is it good to be self -confident? Yes. Is it good to, if you are a business owner, to be able to command presence, right? When you walk into a room, absolutely. to me the key distinguishing factor at least one of them is what is the motivation is she doing something to serve herself or to serve others writing what her business is and and very clearly the way that she's implementing if you want to kill all these dogs right like right she's not somebody else right now serving somebody else right she's she's serving herself it's very much like inward looking and so if you were her if you were her confidant she was

25:44 in a mastermind with you And she's coming to you. What advice would you give to Cruella to help shift what she's doing and use her skills for good rather than for evil? I would say, look at how you treat people because no business owner is going to get anywhere without treating everybody really well. And especially the people working for you. I would also say. To keep the, she has such a like intense vibe in the negative way. And I would want her to shift that intense vibe to just be a little more on the positive side.

26:25 Maybe her tone, take down her tone a little bit, smile a little more. I am not like her in that way. I really care a lot about positive, happy vibes and just positivity. That is. something that I do not connect with Cruella about. Part of what the podcast is just helping people grow and learn and take the lessons of the really hard days and find the lessons and the good and move forward. And with Cruella, she just is very selfish in a bad way, I think. Don't think it's bad to be selfish. Also, I think there is a time to be selfish. Oh yeah. So during my divorce and I'm probably going to break, like even just stuff that you said, I was like triggered to me during my divorce with my divorce lawyer.

27:10 Like when you said, sometimes you sit down with people and you're like, I don't think you're ready. Have you said that to a client before? If they tell me they're not, I tell them it's not my job to force you to get divorced. If you're ready to get divorced. Okay. That's my job. But don't you think sometimes people don't know if they're ready until they sit down and like talk it all out? Okay. So the first time I, I mean, I went a couple of times before I did my filing, but I, the final time when I went and I gave him the check and I was like, go forward. And then I sent him a text at like 2 AM and I was like, stop, don't. I was like, I need, I need a little more time. And a week later. It was filed and I felt good about it. But it was almost just like you're not ready until you are exactly ready. And it really is a hard decision. And it's hard to be the one to pull the plug. It's hard to be the one that goes to do the filing.

28:03 No question. But just you saying that, it made me think about being in that room and what a big deal it is. So you really do sit with people during a very vulnerable time, scary time. I'm sure they're anxious. It is a situation nobody wants to be in. Yet half of America ends up being in it. We always say nobody gets married wanting to get divorced. Right. So when that time comes, it's not something that was originally desired. It might be the right thing at that time, obviously, but not originally. But I do have a quote I wanted to ask you about. Are you ready for this? Yeah. Okay, here goes. Do you know who Jamie Kern Lima is? I do not. She was the founder of IT Cosmetics.

28:45 Oh, I read her book because you told me to read her book. I read it. There you go. That is a great business story. Oh, it's amazing, right? She has so much to share. We're going to put the link to that in the show notes. You do have good book recommendations. I think my bookshelf and my office, half of them are from you. Good, good. And this is a great one. Here's something that she said that I thought was really interesting recently. It was from an interview she did. If you show up as who you authentically are in the fullness of who you are, there is nothing wrong with you. And so I was thinking about that, especially as you're talking about like, hey, look, I like furs and I like to walk into a room and feel like I'm powerful or how Cruella does that. There is nothing wrong with that, right? What's your take on that quote that she had for people who...

29:41 Or maybe sometimes holding themselves back because they feel like they can't show up who they really are. I think a lot of people worry about what other people are going to think. And that's probably a big part of what holds people back to being themselves. Because we all want to be accepted. We want to be loved and taken into the fold, right? But when... you are shrinking yourself to be in those situations, it's a disservice. So really getting the confidence and getting really serious about who am I and who do I want to be to the world and being really okay with not everybody liking you because It's OK. You don't need everybody to like you. You need the right people to like you. And I do think the word selfish gets such a bad rap. And Cruella was definitely selfish. I mean, she wanted to steal all those puppies for her fur. I'm not going to steal anybody's puppies for my fur, OK? Let me make that. All the puppies are safe.

30:40 The puppies, the bobcats might not be. Who knows? No, but they're also like. kind of nuisances on farms and stuff. They like, okay, that's what I tell myself. Anyway, selfish during my, when I was getting divorced, my ex would just tell me you're being so selfish, you're selfish, you're selfish. And just like trying to stab me with that word. And it made me angry because I thought, what world is it where I can't do what's best for me? And I had to just really just. get really confident in myself enough where when somebody was like, you're being selfish, that I could say, actually, I'm just taking care of myself and I'm doing what I need to do. And if that makes me selfish, whatever you want to call it, but at this moment, I can't go on with how it was. I have to make a change. And I think that we need to give permission. We need to give people permission to be selfish in times where they're trying to save themselves. That's literally how I felt. I was like, I have to save myself. And if I have to be selfish to save myself, then that's what I'm going to do. But cruel is selfishness is we all know people that are just selfish because they only care about themselves. I think there's just a big difference with that word and how it can be taken. Yeah. And I think you bring up a good point, right? Because I think the word can be used in a number of different settings, some for good and some for bad. When I think about what you were saying, to me, it's the image that comes to my mind is you always hear, you

32:13 always are told every time you fly, right? If something happens in flight and those little things pop down, right? The little oxygen things, you put your mask on first. You don't put it on somebody else first. You have to put it on yourself first. Because if you don't and you're trying to do somebody else, you might. pass out or die right that's the idea but i think i think that principle really applies which is there are times and seasons where you've got to be a little bit more self -reflective and looking at like what do i need to do to make sure i'm okay because i'm not okay right now and i've got to be okay and is that do some people call that selfish maybe they will and maybe it's just a bad label for it But we have to do that in time. We have to make sure that we are okay so we can start to live into our authentic selves and live into who we can be. Because when we can, in my opinion, that's when we can actually do a greater good for other people. Absolutely.

33:06 And you even just think about being a parent. How are you supposed to be a good parent when you're miserable and you are not taking care of yourself? And I had to teach my kids. Mom has got to be the best mom. I need to be happy. And in order to be happy, I need to make changes and really teaching them the process. And my kids have gone through more change than the average children, but they'll be the first to tell you that they're adaptable and they're okay and they've learned a lot. And I hope that they know if they're ever in a situation where they need a moment to do what's best for them, that they'll do it. And I will always encourage them to. What did that look like in that season for you to choose yourself and also to choose your kids first?

33:51 What did that look like? How did that play out during that season of divorce? Oh, it was rough, Ryan. was living in a one -stop light town that was very Mormon influenced in the central part of Utah. And I'm from Dallas. I'm a city girl. Like when I moved to Texas, that explains the fur in the boots too, right? Totally does. And yeah, the cowboy boots today, a hundred percent it does. I wish I'd worn mine. But I told you, I've got ostrich boots. Those are the only ones I have. I should have sent you the wardrobe requirement. I know. We're not coordinating very well here, Erin. No, but I was living literally. The most opposite of an authentic life. I mean, I was really in a small town trapped and I was working in Provo. So I was every I was coming up so much and I just felt so pulled. And it was hard because for me to do what was best for me, it required a move. It required a lot of change for my kids.

34:47 It wasn't going to be a situation where. mom's down the street, dad's down the street and everything's the same. It really did disrupt their lives more probably than I would like. But also we learned so many lessons and we still talk about them. Like we built our dream house. And then within eight months, we were in a tiny, tiny little apartment that was so small, but we still talk about it. And we're like, we learned the lesson that you can be happy anywhere. And now where my son was on a mission or My other son's living in Texas right now in a smaller place. I'm like, it doesn't matter. We've learned this already. That's old news. We can be happy anywhere. And if you can teach your kids at a young age, they can be happy anywhere. I look at that as a positive part of the divorce, even though it's hard to dig and find a lot of positive things during such a dark time. But the lessons do come out eventually. It might take a little time, but the lessons are always there. And you really do just have to sit and think, what is the lesson to learn and hold on to that part and let the rest go. As you're talking, it just reminds me that there is so much power in humility and going through humble circumstances at times. You know, I can remember first year of law school. My ex -wife and I, we moved there sight unseen. Didn't have any kids at the time. Couldn't afford to go there first to check out and scope out the places. So we just had to like base it off of

36:17 photos on the internet. And this was back in 2006. So wasn't nearly what it is today, right? We'd have a much better idea of what it is today. So we move into this apartment complex that looked great from the pictures. once we get there realize they just thrown a new paint job on it and it was the worst cockroach infested place like that i've ever been around and for that entire year we stuck it out and everything that we had had to be in tupperware every bit of food had to be in tupperware you couldn't cook on the stove and not be right there to watch it because cockroaches would just fall into whatever the pot was that you were cooking and it was i mean it was a terrible living arrangement we couldn't get rid of the cockroaches because we were a bottom unit and all the the units around us this is what the exterminator told us weren't clean either or weren't clean we were but they weren't so we were just going to continue to get cockroaches no matter how many times he treated no matter how much we did to keep it clean was just going to keep happening and you know at the time it felt horrible i look back on that now like any place i've lived since then i'm like this place is great i don't care that it's not that big at least i've got cockroaches in all my food It's not in my cereal. It's not in my soup. And you just, you, it's hard, but you learn such great lessons of like, no, you can be happy even when you have those kinds of circumstances. Because it's not about the apartment or the size of it.

37:43 It's really about, you know, what's inside. What's your relationship with those you love. And if you teach your kids that at a young age, or even you at that age, the years after are going to just be better. Yeah. It's huge. It's huge. Before we jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying the journey so far, will you like, rate, and subscribe to our show? It helps us reach more people like you. We can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality. Did you become a better lawyer after your divorce? 100%. How? No question. I can empathize and understand. in a way that i could not have understood before when you've been through it when you have to co -parent when you've had to go through the emotional battle of getting divorced when you sit across the table from somebody and you're describing you know some things that they should be expecting or you're in mediation with them and helping them understand what things could look like when i have that perspective of having lived it it changes the way that i can communicate with my clients for sure I'm sure there's a level of empathy as well that you just can't have. My divorce lawyer was divorced as well. I didn't really think about that until now, but I'm sure there's just a level of understanding that is invaluable.

39:10 Yeah, for sure. What is a myth about divorce that... When people come in and, you know, we all come in and we think like our situation is so unique, but you probably see the same things over and over. What is something that you see over and over when people come in? You know, I think one of the myths that we see more now is relating to custody. One of the myths that still exists is that, you know, a mom's always going to get custody. And in the last 15 years, there's been a pendulum swing. It's not the other direction, obviously. It's not like dads are getting custody only. But balancing out of that, of recognizing what role a father can play. It's interesting in some of the research that's been done in recent years, I heard about one of the major studies that's been done about the involvement of dads in their kids' lives. So not in divorce specifically, but just in general of like millennial dads. in their lives of their kids that it's three to four times as much as the prior generation and so we do see is that dads are being more involved and that's a good thing i think that really benefits our kids and i think that also plays a role into you know recognizing they do need to be involved more maybe maybe it's not going to be 50 50 but it's probably not going to be minimum parent time either you're going to be some kind of joint custody arrangement so i think people come in thinking oh no moms are always going to get it we have to kind of reset expectations like that's not usually the way it works anymore My ex -husband, he, you

40:41 know, we got the standard, the woman, I got legal, the majority of it. And then he got every other weekend, you know, it's Thursday and it was maybe a year in and he came to me and he's like, I will still pay you what I'm paying you, but can we work with this? And can I have them 50 50? And I think he waited long enough to show to me that like. He was going to follow all the rules and, you know, whatever we agreed to, he was in. But I think that he probably knew when he signed those divorce papers that this was not something he was going to be OK with long term. He needed to have them more. And we worked on our own. We did a good job. We did like a two, three, three, two. And then we switched to a week to week and we all thrived on it. You know, it helped all of us. But I think that's interesting what you did well there that I think sometimes people. Don't because it's hard to co -parent, which is if you were a 2 -3 -3 -2 and then you switched to week to week, what you probably did is decided what was the best for your kids and made the adjustment. And people are really scared to do that sometimes. But like, look, every set of kids is different. And for some kids, like even if it's 50 -50, for some kids, a 2 -2 -5 -5 or a 2 -3 -3 -2. Sometimes that's better for kids, but sometimes a week on week off is better. Everybody. Well, we tried it for a summer and it was my idea. And of course, everybody pushed back. And I basically said, we're going to try it for this amount of time and then we'll all come back together and we'll

42:11 decide if we want to keep it going. And I just knew at their ages, I mean, because they were about 10 and 12 when we got divorced and we were. Football equipment was getting left at one. It was really a logistical thing because everything was getting left everywhere and it felt chaotic. And the switching felt like once they were settled, it was switching again. And by the end of the summer, everybody agreed. It was good. But I learned in that situation week to week. Yeah. Yeah. Kids are way more adaptable than we are, but also kids will never choose change. And that was what I learned in that lesson. Because of course, if I was like, we're going to stop doing. this plan and we're going to do this plan. They're never going to say, yeah, mom, let's do it. Let's pick a new plan. They'll never pick it. They want to pick comfort and security. We all want that, but they're the ones who adapt so well.

43:00 So you almost just have to go into things as a trial, let them ease into it and then let them have a voice. I think it's very important. And that was one thing I didn't always do, you know, when my kids would. I can go to the lawyer and pick what, you know, my kids would tell me that. I hope that's normal. Ryan, tell me. I mean, kids say that all the time because kids are smart and they learn what things to say. And they hear stuff from their kids at school or their family member. But they'd come to me like that and it would just kill my ego. I was just like, oh, you think so? I didn't handle that all the right way. But the boys would say now they're in college. Their friends who have married parents that are living in the same house, they're like, they have not even gone through anything. And they're not going to be ready for the world the same way we are. They're vocalizing that even at their young ages, where there's a level of maturity that does come from going through divorce as kids. And I think we can't go back and change anything, but we can learn and take the lessons and reframe it in a way where, yeah, mom and dad are better as friends. And now they're like, we can't even imagine you married. They say that all the time. They're like, you guys are so different.

44:10 We can never imagine it. Yeah. Okay. So after seeing so many marriages come apart, what would you say is a trait that creates a successful relationship and marriage? Besides communication, because we both agree. Yeah. No one's going to stay married if they're not communicating, unless they're just, I don't know, maybe I couldn't. Yeah. What I would say is, and maybe you could argue that it's going to be tied to communication, but I would say leading with kindness and curiosity. Because to me, kindness just does so much, you know, and kindness is born of empathy. and if if you want to be empathetic for what somebody else is experiencing you've got to be curious about why they're experiencing it and you'd think that in a relationship that you would but people don't they forget to start asking the questions or keep asking the questions like why are you experiencing what you're why why you know Where we're at right now. Why are we struggling? Like what does it mean for you? Where does that come from? Right being really curious and digging down and then truly truly trying to listen Not being offended when the answer comes back that maybe you weren't expecting right? and in the responses being Kind in your responses because it's really easy to have a sharp tongue when somebody criticizes you for something you did

45:42 or is giving you feedback that maybe you don't love. It's really easy to have a sharp tongue back. But when we can respond with kindness, especially for the person that we do love, I just think it goes so far. You know, you talk about losing a really close friend of yours. And it's just, I mean, honestly, anybody that's listened to this, like, I really like, I mean, like, go and listen to that episode. It's a really... it's a really good episode to listen to and to learn from for for right now when we think about loss we think about things like that we experience what what's like a major lesson that you took from experiencing loss in the way that you did with such a close friend that that passed away from cancer that you could share with our audiences um if they're going through that kind of a really really difficult loss or trauma i think i you know when i lost my best friend to cancer and it was um just a real i'd never lost a name but my grandparents were all still alive i had just never experienced loss so i had to learn to mourn and nobody talks about that or teaches you because it's so personal and there's no guidebook to it. Everybody's going to go through it in their own way. I think for me, I just had to learn that it just takes time and that you just can't rush it. I mean, I cried. I was making that drive

47:15 back and forth from that one stoplight town up here. several times a week. And I would just cry in the car. That was like my time alone. And I didn't have my kids and I'd go to work and then I'd work and come back and I would just let it out. And I cried for years and it never got, I never missed her any less. And I still, I actually talked to my psychic today and she came through. So it's so funny that you even wanted to talk about this. I don't know if you believe in psychics, but today she was just like, I see you and she knows I'm stressed and she wanted to just make sure that I was good. She's like, I know not a lot of people around you can really see this, but I see it. So she's still my best friend, just on the other side. There's just no rule book. The grief is love with nowhere to go. there's just no way through it other than through it. And there's no timeline and it's not linear. It's going to go up and down, but you can learn to take the memories and the lessons and carry them on in a way. They're still part of your day -to -day life where they don't, they might not be here physically, but just keep them in your heart. For me, that's made all the difference because. Like, she's still there. She's still somebody I can talk to and who sees me and understands me. And maybe she has more influence over me from her side than here. I don't know. But I

48:48 wish she was here. So I think that leads so beautifully into this quote that I found. It's by Megan Devine. She wrote the book called It's Okay That You're Not Okay. And I'm going to get your take on this quote. She said, some things cannot be fixed. they can only be carried and so have you seen that oh i think when i hear that i think i just picture her boys because i wanted to fix it i wanted to bring their mom back like she was the most exceptional mom and after she was gone her home was never the same and her kids were never the same her family was never the same and i'm a fixer and i want to fix everything but to carry it is to happy that happy place as a reminder I remember one of her sons was working at McDonald's in the drive -thru and I would just make sure to give that extra big smile and be so happy to see him because I know when he looks at me he connects me to his mom even though he was so little when she passed and I think that There is just no right or wrong way and just being easy on yourself and knowing that sometimes the lesson is just being able to carry it and to never forget. I never want to forget her. Not everywhere can be the happiest place on earth.

50:15 And at RCG Law Group, my job outside of our podcast, we get that. Life throws curveballs, legal stuff, family stuff, the things you didn't see coming. That's what we're here for. If you're dealing with something and don't know where to turn, give RCG a call. I think it's a beautiful lesson. And when we experience grief and loss and pain, there can come from a lot of beautiful things eventually. They don't necessarily come right away. In fact, they can come years later, right? But we all do experience that. We all do experience loss to some degree at times. Truth be told, I've never lost somebody that was really close to me. My grandparents on my mom's side both died when I was relatively young. My dad's side, my grandma, I was a teenager, but we weren't super close with her. She had some struggles with addiction and such. Lovely person, but had some struggles with it. And then my granddad on that side, like he was just the most quiet person he had. I think it was in the Navy in World War II. Probably carried some trauma from that. Didn't like to talk about it. Didn't talk much. Very, very quiet person. So when he passed away when I was in my 20s, I just didn't know him very well. And I've never had somebody super close pass away. and it's it's kind of like i feel like totally unprepared right because when

51:47 i see and hear about grief that that you carry for this best friend i'm like oh man what's what's it going to be like when i do like i get my whole head about it like oh my goodness when somebody really close dies this is going to be so hard i'm just going to fall apart um and that might be true i probably will but then sometimes i need to like just remember what hasn't happened yet i need to live in where i'm at now i need to appreciate the people that i do have and really value the moments that i have with the people that i have now They'll not always be here. I won't always be here, but I really have to appreciate the time I have. Every day is a gift, literally. Every day. And you just want, you want to learn while life is good, but we only learn through the hard parts and the losses. And relationship losses are part of grief altogether. And, but what is the alternative? Not loving somebody or not having a close relationship and still like. I hope everybody has a best friend the way I have Amberlee. And I would never trade anything, even all the tears and all the years, I would never trade that for my years that I got her. And I think you just have to look at it as a blessing. Like it was such a blessing that I got to experience that. 100%. 100%. One of the things I wrote down was from... And an author, a professor that I really like, she wrote a book called Mindset. Her name is Carol Dweck.

53:13 And one thing she said in there is becoming is better than being. And so for you, what does that mean to you of the process of becoming is better than just being? Growth. Yeah. I wish I sometimes I wish I didn't grow so fast, but. I grow really fast. It's just, I'm a Scorpio. I have this like intensity and emotional aspect of me that craves more experiences and craves new insight and conversations. And it's just like mentally stimulating for me. And I feel stuck sometimes when I'm not being emotionally stimulated. And I think that. It's a trade -off because I look at some people and I see they're just happy with their one life and their one house and their one marriage and they're so happy.

54:10 And sometimes that looks easier. It's just not how I was made. And I think just when I went down the journey of learning who I was and really accepting that about me and seeing. It's never going to change. So Aaron, you just got to accept it and you just got to roll with it and make it the most. It's going to be this big, crazy, beautiful life and I'm okay. And I'm here for it. Like that's just my life. And I'm probably going to live chapters and parts and my big, at my funeral, you guys are going to have a lot of stories about everything I was up to, but that is who I am. And I'm not going to fight that. So becoming. is growth to me and it looks so different for different people and there's no right or wrong way and my friends who are living their same one life they're so happy and that's all that matters but i know they look at me and they probably well one they might think it's it's exhausting to be growing because it is but also i know they're proud of me and they know that That's who I am. And instead of fighting it, I'm just going to put it into a healthy way.

55:17 And relationships are very important to me. That's one thing. I want to keep growing and growing my whole life, but I want to keep my people close. I don't want to outgrow relationships. And if you aren't communicating, if that's not on your front of your mind, you can outgrow relationships. But that's a part I want to keep growing. But it's important to me to have my home team, my home base in these relationships, these friendships that I've had a long time are important to me. And moving forward, I want my next partner to be my last partner. I want a partner to grow with me. And we grow together. And it's just this big adventure. And that's how I see the rest of my life. growing days playing out i love that i i was talking with somebody the other day and they described um this idea of in a relationship that people do grow and um it really kind of like shifted my mindset about the way he talked about it's like some people will grow apart and then relationship ends but but good relationships and the best relationships as they grow and they become somebody different, they're actually growing together and becoming somebody different together and continue to fall in love with this new version as they grow together. And that's just something that's so beautiful to me. I love that. That's the goal. It actually happened to be Dawson's dad, who was on an episode that we haven't aired yet. And it was just completely flipped the script for me. of like no it's okay to grow it's okay

56:48 to be somebody different than when you first got married or you first got in this relationship and it can be a really beautiful thing because you can continue to fall in love with somebody as you grow together it's just like i love that but it takes two people willing to do that because my my ex -husband called my mom crying i want the old aaron back i just want the old aaron back and he did because he stayed the same he stayed the same he wanted me to stay the same and it just couldn't happen so if you can find that and set that tone from the start where it's like whoever i you know my my final husband is gonna look at me and be like i might get 10 more versions of you and i'm here for it and let's just see what what happens and i'm gonna grow with you and i'm gonna let you be you like that's what i need i i need somebody who has a growth mindset as well or they're just not you know, going to keep up with me, but I want that in a partner too. I want somebody who is evolving and growing. And that's where I just haven't found my partner yet because I haven't found a man who I can grow with. Yeah. And you know, it, and it comes to you when it comes to you, because, you know, ultimately one of the things that I think in relationships we should avoid is maybe something that you were experiencing when, when he wanted that, which is codependency.

58:05 he was codependent on you and that's that's not makings of a healthy relationship i've heard it described by um marriage and family therapists as interdependency like you have to be able to be independent and then you can depend on each other for things but you have to be able to stand independently and be okay with who you are without each other and then you can truly grow together and make each other better but if you're codependent you won't right it's really can be very very damaging right That was a big part of our marriage. I don't like it. I mean, I'm not a marriage and family therapist, and we'll put it right out there. But you're a second best divorce lawyer. I was hearing hallmarks of it. I was hearing hallmarks of it. Yeah. Okay. So you ready for a fun segment? Yes. Okay. We're going to do a little this or that. Okay. And so, look, if you have a controversial opinion, I'm going to have to call you out on it. You know me. I have opinions on everything. Good. A few of them, too. Good.

58:58 Okay. Disneyland or Disney World? Disneyland I've been at a Disney World since I was a little kid I think I had a trip to take my boys to Disney World and I was gonna spend a fortune and then I was like why am I taking him to Disney World and because I wanted to take him to see like the real world and yeah so that's kind of the that's me in a nutshell I want to show them things I love it and have good experiences and what the world's really like sunrise or sunset a sunset it's beautiful where's your favorite sunset any beach i'm a water i'm a water sign and i love i feel so connected to water and a sunset over a beach sitting on a patio with a glass of wine can't be beat i when i think of it i think of um when i was in oahu with my wife and we had been along with waikiki beach and we just found some random place to eat food and we were coming out of it and the sun was setting and it was like the most beautiful thing I could ever imagine.

1:00:10 It was just like, that's heaven right there. It was amazing. There's something about the sunset. I mean, I know the sunrise is like the start of the day, but just like a deep breath is what a sunset is to me. And it's like, okay, we did it another day. Yeah. I think that's a good, I like that a lot. Quiet night in or night out on the town? Both. I can't have one without the other. Okay. I'm going to make you choose one. Probably. Oh, okay. Okay. A weeknight in weekend out. Cause you like sometimes to lay low. I do lay low after work, but on a weekend I want to go out. Okay. I have, that's an acceptable answer. Totally is. Cause I, I'm very similar. I am not out of the house on a weeknight. There's times where, yeah, I get done with work and all I want to do is like, okay, I'll go home. The kids are there. i'm definitely gonna like try to like wrestle around with them or engage with them and play with them i don't want to go anywhere right right like we gonna be in let's just throw on a movie or let's just like play a board game because i do not want to go out yeah yeah there's definitely times where i'm both um okay here's the last this or that texting thread or one long phone call do not call me no one should call me I probably won't even answer. I really only answer for a very select few people. I would deny your call and then text you and say, hey, how are you? I think most people would answer

1:01:40 that texting thread. Or they would answer a phone call. They would prefer a phone call. Not me either. I'm with you. Really? I don't really like talking on the phone, to be honest. Really? I wouldn't think people want to talk on the phone. I'll talk on the phone to my wife on my drive home every day. That's our thing. That's our routine. It's a way that we get a chance to connect and talk. Before you walk in the door. I love that. But that is it. Anybody else wants to talk on the phone? I'd rather not, to be honest. We talk all day, Ryan. We're talking all day when we get home. But if I was sitting at home all day, I'd want to talk at night. Yeah. it's just i think that's fair i think that's fair probably yeah you're exactly right because we talk all day it totally makes sense okay here's a rapid fire you ready for these okay favorite disney movie little mermaid so good yeah i mean we all wanted to be ariel sorry i mean and we all wanted that prince eric he's hot for sure i under the sea was like my jam I would, as a little Ryan, like... Sebastian dancing? We totally would dance to it and sing it. We just loved it. I mean, I think she was probably three and I was five.

1:02:45 Like, oh, we loved it. Favorite Disney song? Part of that world, Little Mermaid. So good. I want to be where the people are. That's me. Unless it's a work day and then I want to be at home. Okay, so I know you're not a huge Disney fan. However... last weekend was D23, which they do every two years at Disneyland. They do a big convention. They announce all the upcoming projects, movies. They announce all the things they're going to do to the parks over the next few years. It's a big, big deal, right? One of the things they also do is they award the Disney Legends Award to people that are Disney Legends. One of the people they awarded it to was Lin -Manuel Miranda, whom I love, right? Moana, Encanto, Hamilton, many things. In his speech that he gave, He took the words from that song and rewrote them a little bit to being like showing gratitude for things that he had had happen, experiences he had with Disney to part of your world. To the Little Mermaid song. Yes, it was so lovely.

1:03:47 It was so, it was amazing. Send it to me. And then he had it written on the inside of his cover of his VHS of Little Mermaid that he had. And he had the girl who played Little Mermaid sign it at the thing. I was like, this is blowing my mind. This shows you're a Disney adult, but this is flowing. It does. It was amazing. I'm so happy for you. I love it. Favorite Disney princess? Wow, Belle. Is Belle a princess? She is. In that beautiful yellow dress? That's exactly why. I love Beauty and the Beast, and I love Belle. Belle's awesome. She just wanted fine love. She's smart. She likes to read. She likes to use her imagination. She wasn't scared of some big bad guy. She's like, bring it on. She loves a challenge. She does. Favorite Disney hero or heroine? Moana. I do love Moana. I listened to your Moana episode too. moana was big when i was getting divorced and i felt this like what that opening song i don't remember it but you remember it where she's with the village and then she like wants to leave so bad what's the song um now i can't remember the song either but like her dad's singing it she's singing it it's yes the the sea and the sky it calls me I was seeing that song and I was in Hawaii around this time and I was at the beach and I wanted

1:05:21 to bring home like a memory of Hawaii. It was my first time I stayed at turtle Bay and I brought, it was right before I was getting divorced because I took home this black lava rock from the Island and I packed it in my suitcase. Didn't even think about it, went home and then. Literally, Ryan, my life blew up and the divorce all went through within maybe six weeks. And I was talking to somebody about it or somebody saw the rock in my office. And I was like, it's a lava rock. And they were like, don't you know you'd never take a lava rock from Hawaii? It's like the worst omen ever. And I thought back, I was like, once I took that rock, everything went downhill. And then I took the rock and I... mailed it to the turtle bay and i said please return this to the beach because i cannot have any more bad luck and that was my moana my my moana moment because i had a little moana next to the lava rock yeah and then then it was just moana she was solo the song that she sings is how far i'll go yes and it is a lovely song because you know as i'm thinking about how it applies to you i know we're not talking about one of this episode but um Yeah, I think to some degree, I don't think maybe you realized how far you could go. And sometimes a change in life, a change in seasons in life is what helps us see that as you go to the horizon, as you go and try this new chapter in life, which you did, right? The divorce was something that,

1:06:52 although hard, was necessary for you to grow and become who you were, right? And Moana needed to leave her island, even though it was something uncomfortable. Even though it was hard, right? It was hard. she had to do that to find out who she really was and what she was really capable of so love that love that choice um favorite disney ride oh i do like i mean i would i was not a horrible mom i took my kids to disneyland but like once they were past disneyland i was past it too but grandkids i will take my grandkids ride i love peter pan for sure It's too short though. You wait in that line and then it's like, what, three minutes ride? That is the hard part because it is always a very popular ride. The line is always long. Why can't Peter Pan be as long as It's a Small World? Why can't we flip -flop those? Because It's a Small World should be three minutes and Peter Pan should be 20.

1:07:46 I mean, girl, I'm with you. It's a small world. It's not my favorite. There's some people who have been on this podcast and said it's a small world. It's their favorite ride. It's one of my wife's favorite rides, and I would rather do without it. The only thing that's good for me, this is a controversial opinion, hopefully I don't offend people, is when I need a nap because it's been a long day. And I'm like, yeah, let's go on. It's a small world, so I can sleep through it. And it's cold. Yes. Right? Favorite city to visit? Oh, man. I'm going to say Nashville right now. I love Nashville. So fun. You love it? I'm not even a country music guy. Oh, it's the music. I love it. The vibe. It's like. It's so fun. Yeah. Yeah. I love you some Nash Vegas.

1:08:28 Yes. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Favorite dog breed? Any doodle. I have a Labradoodle. I've had a Golden Doodle. I think any breed with a doodle is special. Yeah. Yeah. They are fun. Favorite go -to song to blast in the car? Alicia Keys' Girl on Fire. See, I was going to sing it. I can't sing it all. I'm going to hurt people's ears if I try to sing this. Have you seen Hell's Kitchen? No. That's the Broadway show about her life and has her songs in it. No. Girl. I got to go. You got to. I think it's actually in the Eccles next year. Oh, cool. Totally worth it.

1:09:11 Love it. Yeah. That song is like a mantra song to me. Music is mantra to me. Yeah. Yeah. That song is a power. Yeah. Yeah. Love that song. Favorite statement accessory? A handbag. Okay. Which one? Well, Louis Vuitton is what I started with and it's just spread, but that's how I reward myself for hard work. And every episode of Yes and Land with... three actionable takeaways from our guests so aaron what are three things that our listeners could put into effect in their lives today or this week to help them in this journey that they have and in learning from the things that we talked about today things that came up today um Talking about Amberly, I think it's important to live in the moment and to stop yourself in your tracks when you are feeling that joy and happiness when you're like, hell yeah, like this is what life's about. Literally stopping yourself and saying out loud, I want more moments like this. That's my line. More moments like this and just stop yourself and just invite more of that into your life. And I think that little thing can help create more and more happiness. That's a really good one.

1:10:24 Okay, so. Stop and take a moment and then remind yourself you want more of that. More of that. Bring it on. Fantastic. Two more. I think with your views of divorce, being divorced and being a divorce lawyer, I think you have a lot of wisdom that you probably haven't even shared here, but just emphasizing communication in a relationship. And it's not just in a partnership with. a husband and wife or whatever with your kids, with your parents. I think that's one thing. Parents struggle as they get older and your kids get older and like keeping that communication, just being able to communicate in a healthy way with all relationships in your life is something that I think everybody could do a little better. Yeah, totally agree.

1:11:12 Okay. And last one. Maybe I need to go to Disneyland. Maybe I need to like go get a... Corn dog on a stick. Yes. And a funnel cake. Well, I don't even know. What's the best treat? Churro. A churro. Okay. I need a corn dog in one hand because I know where that booth is. And I get a churro. And I don't even care if I need to ride a ride. I'm just going to eat and hang. Right? Girl, if you're going to do that, you're going to call me up. I'm going to hang out. Hi. Disneyland can be a really fun place to just. Chill and relax. And if you wanted to, you could lay low. No, right. You could just lay low. You really could. I totally would do that and just go for the vibe. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for being on with us today. What a joy and a pleasure to be able to visit with you for all the things that you bring and for the vulnerability that you show. A blessing in the lives to those who listen and those who are in your life. So thank you so much. As you leave this conversation, remember that yes, the past can hurt and you can either run from it. or you can learn from it so here's to learning and finding joy in the journey see you real soon